2HC is everything OK, 2DD can read but can't write, delete and format!

Jeff
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Re: 2HC is everything OK, 2DD can read but can't write, delete and format!

Post by Jeff »

wirequire wrote:
Sun Feb 07, 2021 1:58 am
Hi Jeff,

Of course I've already checked HFE file.
But It was same result.
Can you share the HFE files please ?

wirequire
Posts: 22
Joined: Thu Feb 04, 2021 9:32 am

Re: 2HC is everything OK, 2DD can read but can't write, delete and format!

Post by wirequire »

Hi

I tried HFE format again.
Delete command was same result.
But format command occurred error as "Track0 is Bad".

https://drive.google.com/file/d/18NSmz6 ... sp=sharing

Please check data.

wirequire
Posts: 22
Joined: Thu Feb 04, 2021 9:32 am

Re: 2HC is everything OK, 2DD can read but can't write, delete and format!

Post by wirequire »

Hi Jeff,

I found out new information.

The same phenomenon occurred on SD HxC Floppy Emulator Rev.C.
firmware is 1.8.6.20a.
Jumper settings are ...
ID0 is shorted Drive A.
ID1 is opened.
ID2 is opened.
ID3 is shorted to Drive A.

I postted data.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1WlzP6V ... sp=sharing

Please check data.

wirequire
Posts: 22
Joined: Thu Feb 04, 2021 9:32 am

Re: 2HC is everything OK, 2DD can read but can't write, delete and format!

Post by wirequire »

supplement info

On formatting command,img format didn't occure any error, but HFE format occrurred TRACK 0 error(Rev.C too).
5.0J and 3.3E of DOS version does not matter.

Jeff
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Re: 2HC is everything OK, 2DD can read but can't write, delete and format!

Post by Jeff »

Thanks : Your format test is interesting : It appears that the machine is trying to write the disk in HD mode (500 kbits/s) on the DD images. That's why all the write attempts fail.
Is the machine using a floppy disk drive supporting the 600 RPM rotation speed ?

wirequire
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Joined: Thu Feb 04, 2021 9:32 am

Re: 2HC is everything OK, 2DD can read but can't write, delete and format!

Post by wirequire »

Hi Jeff,

Thank you for your reply.

This PC support 2DD(300rpm, 250kbps) or 2HD(360rpm, 500kbps) only.
So 600rpm is impossible. :!:

I'll check about controlling transfer rate a little more.
I think that pin11(HD IN from host) is doubtful.
Anyway I'll continue checking.

wirequire
Posts: 22
Joined: Thu Feb 04, 2021 9:32 am

Re: 2HC is everything OK, 2DD can read but can't write, delete and format!

Post by wirequire »

hi Jeff,

I'm sorry to have kept you so long.

I've logged real FDD's formatting data.
This time, sampling time was setted 1MHz, so you would see correct data(sorry for last time's logging data).
In data include pin11(HD IN, HOST to FDD), so you may come up with something(I hope so).
in addition, real FDD was not working pretty well.
So 2DD formatting was going to the end, finally failed(Error writing FAT :cry: ).
But I think it was a pretty good in partial, so it may be useful for figuring out about meaning of "HD IN".

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1yRS-bN ... sp=sharing

Please check data again.

btw this PC(T-3100SS001) is almost same as T1000SE in US.
Difference is FDD's supporting format type only (1.2M or 1.44M).
And also IT-3100SS002 I have, is almost same as T1000LE in US.
There are same FDD unit.
FDD model I checked are ...
Citizen U1DB-02A
Matsushita EME-262T

You have many expreiences, so I think you might have already some solution for these PC or FDD.

Thank you.

Jeff
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Re: 2HC is everything OK, 2DD can read but can't write, delete and format!

Post by Jeff »

Have you the machine's service manual / schematic ?

wirequire
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Re: 2HC is everything OK, 2DD can read but can't write, delete and format!

Post by wirequire »

Hi,

No schematics I found. :(
I only have these documents.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Q003Sp ... sp=sharing

Is ir useful?

Jeff
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Re: 2HC is everything OK, 2DD can read but can't write, delete and format!

Post by Jeff »

Yes the pinout page 125 is interesting.

wirequire
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Re: 2HC is everything OK, 2DD can read but can't write, delete and format!

Post by wirequire »

I think so too.
It's same page 79 in T1000SE(with I/O info).
Do you think it is possible to solve the problem by connecting to STM32F's non-use pin(ex. PA3, PB2 etc) from PC's 11pin?

Jeff
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Re: 2HC is everything OK, 2DD can read but can't write, delete and format!

Post by Jeff »

Some answers are there :

https://www.vogons.org/viewtopic.php?p=642629#p642629

Apparently the pin 9 state is not gated on the original hardware.
And the pin 11 should be connected to the pin 2...
See the bold text above :
Here are the construction details for the internal floppy adapter:
You will need 34 way and 26 way IDC headers and a 26 way ribbon cable of suitable length
Mount the 26 way IDC on one end of the ribbon cable as normal with the red wire going to pin 1.
Split the ribbon cable at the other end between wires 11 and 12. (red wire is pin 1)
The piece of ribbon with wires 12 to 26 should be inserted into the IDC header so that wire 12 makes contact with pin 18 and wire 26 makes contact with pin 32 leaving pins 33 & 34 at the end unconnected.
This connects the following pins:

wire 12 >> pin 18 !FDCDRC >> !Direction
wire 13 >> pin 19 GND
wire 14 >> pin 20 !STEP >> !STEP
wire 15 >> pin 21 GND
wire 16 >> pin 22 !WDATA >> !Write data
wire 17 >> pin 23 GND
wire 18 >> pin 24 !WGATE >> !Write enable
wire 19 >> pin 25 GND
wire 20 >> pin 26 !TRACK0 >> !Track 0
wire 21 >> pin 27 GND
wire 22 >> pin 28 !WPROTC >> !Write protect
wire 23 >> pin 29 GND
wire 24 >> pin 30 !RDDA >> !Read data
wire 25 >> pin 31 GND
wire 26 >> pin 32 !SIDE >> !Side select

Clamp the IDC as normal then remove the top of the IDC header to reveal the unconnected IDC pins.
Then connect each of the following wires to each IDC pin as follows:

wire 2 >> pin 8 !INDEX >> !Index
wire 4 >> pin 12 !FDSELA >> !Drive select B
wire 6 >> pin 34 !DSKCHG >> !Disk change
wire 8 >> pin 5 !READY >> GND (Ready is not a signal present on IBM type floppies but needs to be grounded to work)
wire 10 >> pin 16 !MONA >> !Motor on B
wire 11 >> pin 2 !LOWDNS >> !High density

The easiest way to make the above connections is to drape a wire over the required IDC pin then refit the top of the header and press it together by hand.
Remove the top again and repeat for the next wire. You may break the latches on the top with this continual removal but it can still be used to push the wires on the pins, after which it should be replaced by an intact one from another 34 way header.

Finally, the first four remaining unconnected wires (1,3,5 & 7) which are all +5v can be soldered together and connected to the +5v line of a floppy drive power connector (0v comes from the GND on pins on the 34 way connecter).
Note that this can only be used if the floppy drive is +5v only, many early drives used both +12v and +5v. In this case, the +5v lines should be insulated and a molex splitter used to split the supply to the hard drive.

Wire 9 (!NOTCH) is the status of the HD hole in the floppy. This is used by the BIOS to determine the size of floppy inserted and if you try to format a floppy of the wrong size you get an error "Parameters not supported by drive". Unfortunately standard floppy drives don't have this signal so you either have to ground it (for 1.44MB) or leave it floating (for 720K) which means you can't format one size of floppy although you can always read & write correctly formatted 720K & 1.44MB floppies irrespective of the state of this signal. The BIOS call that generates this error is not used by the formatter in DOS 3.3x so you can always format any size disk by booting to DOS 3.3x first. (Some T5200s with original floppy drives also generate this error when trying to format 1.44MB drives so that signal might not be available on some original floppy drives but they were supplied with DOS 3.3 so it didn't cause a problem at the time)


To avoid these problems, my patched BIOS versions for both the T5200 and T3200SX have removed the check of this status bit so they will format any floppy with any DOS version. (Obviously you can still only format a floppy according to it's capacity)

If you are running my patched BIOS, the state of Wire 9 doesn't matter, if you are not using my BIOS, then Wire 9 should be grounded or left floating depending on what size floppies you want to format most and then boot to DOS3.3 to format the other size (gnd = 1.44MB, float = 720K).
If grounding wire 9, connect it to another ground pin such as pin 7 although if you have a floppy drive with ground pins removed (see below), you will have to join it to the wire going to pin 5.

Warning: Some drives (e.g. more recent Mitsumi drives) don't have all the GND pins fitted on the 34 way socket. This means that the !READY signal might not make contact with GND if pin 5 is missing and the drive may not work. Pin 5 is present on the Mitsumi drives which is why that one is used but if other manufacturers did the same thing and didn't have pin 5 then you might have to move that wire to another pin or connect it directly to GND.
Also as there are fewer GND pins, there may be insufficient GND return for the +5V supply in which case the molex splitter should be used. I suggest avoiding this type of drive if you have a choice.

wirequire
Posts: 22
Joined: Thu Feb 04, 2021 9:32 am

Re: 2HC is everything OK, 2DD can read but can't write, delete and format!

Post by wirequire »

Hi Jeff,

I appreciate your response.
I checked it with great interest.

Meaning of 2pin in this article is High-Density signal as input of FDD.
So Host's pin11(LOWDNS signal as output) can connect to FDD's 2pin.

But now I've setted Gotek's 2pin to nDen as output.
Then these pins can't be connected each other.

I exhausted all possibilities, so I have no choice but to give up.

Anyway Thank you for you polite support. :D

Jeff
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Re: 2HC is everything OK, 2DD can read but can't write, delete and format!

Post by Jeff »

You maybe can try to force these signals high or low with a switch to check how the machine behave ?

wirequire
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Re: 2HC is everything OK, 2DD can read but can't write, delete and format!

Post by wirequire »

As I mentioned earlier I've already done it.
So I said "Can Read but Can't Write, Delete and Format ".
I think that it is impossible that unless emulator's firmware supports Host's pin11(LOWDNS) as output.
Reason why I think so that it seems that real FDD detects pin11's signal and works something while writing, deleteting and formatting process at first glance the latest logger data.
I think that it may control reading speed in writing any data process for as soon as possible processing in 2DD mode though.
But I have no idea anymore because I can't modify firmware by my self, so I'll give up.

Thank you for everything you’ve done for me.

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