It is difficult for hxc to recognize and read / write self created empty images on FM-TOWNS II FRESH

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SOUKIN
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It is difficult for hxc to recognize and read / write self created empty images on FM-TOWNS II FRESH

Post by SOUKIN »

I have an FM-TOWNS II FRESH E which is different from FM-TOWNS Marty. It has two standard 34pin 3.5 "floppy drives. I can connect hxc directly(I use hxc for gotek), and it can read most games normally (MFM/D88 → HFE).

First of all, the configuration of users using Marty in the forum is "Shugart", but I can read the image normally only when I select "IBM PC HD".

However, it is strange that the normal fm-towns floppy disk image should be 77 tracks, 2 sides and 8 sectors, but these images are 84 tracks(MFM) or 80 tracks(D88), but they can be read normally


However, some games need to use the "create user disk" function in the game to turn an ordinary empty floppy disk into a user disk (save disk).But these self created images seem difficult to recognize, read, write, and format.Only the image downloaded from the Internet and extracted from the floppy disk can be read and written completely,but it still cannot be formatted

I created two images: 1.44M (84 tracks) and a custom image (77 tracks).

I tried some software and system:

1.Princess maker 2 (this is a CD-ROM game, but the game must be saved with a floppy disk). The 1.44M image can be formatted and used normally, but although the image of track 77 can be formatted, it has been unable to read and write.
2.Dinosaur, this is a floppy disk game that does not provide user disk. It needs to use the "create user disk" function to format a floppy disk. I tried all empty images, and each time I would prompt "abnormal disk in drive1" after reading and writing a random number of tracks
3. The Legend of Heroes 2, the game has two save modes,:save in program disk or create a user disk and save in it,The game can be normally saved in the program disk,However, the user disk cannot be created and saved
4.MS-DOS, when formatting the image, you will be prompted that the format is wrong and the whole format is required. However, you still cannot format the disk, and you will be prompted with 0 track error,or prompt that the floppy drive is not ready
5.TownsOS,1.44M image can be read but can’t to format(drive I/O error),77 tracks image can’t be read and write.

I don't know what went wrong,Why is there the problem of making mistakes halfway through reading and writing, and the results of different games are different
Last edited by SOUKIN on Wed Mar 30, 2022 9:08 am, edited 6 times in total.

SOUKIN
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A test that attempts to create a floppy disk image using the emulator

Post by SOUKIN »

At present, I put a image created by hxc software into the FM-TOWNS emulator (UNZ), and try to load several software to format and create user disk.

Since the Unz emulator only supports D88 and HDM, I directly created a D88 image (track 80) with hxc software, and then converted it into HDM image (track 79) with virtual floppy image converter (vfic)

All of them(D88 and HDM) are successful and can be formatted and accessed normally by UNZ,after formatting, see the image by track analyzer,it becomes an 8-sector 80 track (D88) or 79 track (HDM), only track 0-76 has data,after track 76,tracks is empty (HDM) or FF (D88) .

Now I convert these formatted and created images into HFE and copy them into hxc,However, it seems that it is difficult for hxc and fm-towns to "recognize" these images,The hxc will stop after reading for 1 second (the track stays at 0). It is possible to read the image after loading the image many times.

I tried two games:

The legend of heros 2. After many attempts, the user disk was recognized as an empty disk. I tried to save the game and succeeded, but it seems that the image is still difficult to read.、

Dinosour,After many attempts, I can recognize the user disk and see the saved location, but you still can't write data. It seems that it stops after reading the disk 0 track

So for some reason, hxc and fm-towns are difficult to recognize these self created floppy disks.Either it stops reading once, or it will be recognized only after multiple attempts. However, even if it can be recognized, errors may still occur during reading



I don't know if the floppy drive signal of fm-towns is special, but it seems that the floppy drive of FM-TOWNS II FRESH E is a standard IBM PC HD floppy drive, but it works under some strange standards.This makes it difficult for the computer to recognize the image in hxc.

Jeff
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Re: A test that attempts to create a floppy disk image using the emulator

Post by Jeff »

Can you please share one of these images ?

SOUKIN
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Re: A test that attempts to create a floppy disk image using the emulator

Post by SOUKIN »

Jeff wrote:
Wed Mar 30, 2022 10:34 pm
Can you please share one of these images ?
This is the download address of the two images:
https://archive.org/details/fmt_dinosaur_kfraw
https://archive.org/details/fmt_legendofheroes2_kfraw

I use the image in MFM format

The attachment is two user disk files in D88 format,generate by HXC software(1.44M D88) ,and use the "create user disk" in the game to become the user disk image by emulator(UNZ)
Attachments
userdisk.zip
(18.83 KiB) Downloaded 183 times

SOUKIN
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Re: A test that attempts to create a floppy disk image using the emulator

Post by SOUKIN »

Jeff wrote:
Wed Mar 30, 2022 10:34 pm
Can you please share one of these images ?
In addition : I used Flash Floppy firmware and adjusted the interface of FF CFG to "jppc"(P2=unused, P34=RDY) or "jppc hdout"(P2=HD_OUT, P34=RDY). It seems that Dinosour and The legend of heros 2 can successfully create user disk, and Dinosour can write and save to user disk normally (although "abnormal" prompt occasionally appears). In addition, MS-DOS can also format hard disk normally, but townsos cannot format it, Prompt floppy drive read-write error.

However, I still hope that hxc firmware can have better compatibility with Japanese computers. After all, I paid 12 euros for firmware.

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Re: A test that attempts to create a floppy disk image using the emulator

Post by Jeff »

This remember me this : viewtopic.php?p=17639#p17639
Maybe a pull up resistor is need as the Marty ?

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Re: A test that attempts to create a floppy disk image using the emulator

Post by Jeff »

SOUKIN wrote:
Thu Mar 31, 2022 8:14 am
adjusted the interface of FF CFG to "jppc"(P2=unused, P34=RDY) or "jppc hdout"(P2=HD_OUT, P34=RDY).
Then you need to use the AKAI Interface modes :
S950_DD, S950_HD or S950_DD_HD from the embedded menu.

And since you appears to use a Gotek (Which hardware / MCU version btw ?) i strongly recommend you to update to the latest version in the WIP_Firmware folder.

https://hxc2001.com/download/floppy_dri ... rmware.zip

https://hxc2001.com/docs/gotek-floppy-e ... pdate.html

Please find attached some blank images in akai mode. I made 300RPM and 360RPM versions since i am unsure which RPM use the FM-TOWN.
These images are totally blank/unformatted and need to be formatted on the machine.
Please note that a DD HFE can't be formatted in HD and that a HD HFE can't be formatted in DD, so please use the right density image.
BLANK_AKAI_DD.zip
(2.71 KiB) Downloaded 169 times
BLANK_AKAI_HD.zip
(5.04 KiB) Downloaded 178 times
BLANK_360RPM_AKAI_DD.zip
(2.34 KiB) Downloaded 190 times
BLANK_360RPM_AKAI_HD.zip
(4.28 KiB) Downloaded 174 times

SOUKIN
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Re: A test that attempts to create a floppy disk image using the emulator

Post by SOUKIN »

Jeff wrote:
Thu Mar 31, 2022 8:22 am
This remember me this : viewtopic.php?p=17639#p17639
Maybe a pull up resistor is need as the Marty ?
Marty is a special model. Mine is an ordinary fm-towns with a standard 3.5 "interface。

Moreover, I seem to have selected almost all options (including s950_dd, s950_hd or s950_dd_hd) in the setting cfg file of hxc software. However, it seems that it can not solve the problem. Do I need to use the following empty image?

Jeff
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Re: A test that attempts to create a floppy disk image using the emulator

Post by Jeff »

SOUKIN wrote:
Thu Mar 31, 2022 9:16 am
Moreover, I seem to have selected almost all options (including s950_dd, s950_hd or s950_dd_hd) in the setting cfg file of hxc software. However, it seems that it can not solve the problem. Do I need to use the following empty image?
Yes please follow my advises : update the firmware to the mentioned UPD file (HxCFEUSB_V4_2_8_4a.UPD in the WIP_Firmware folder), and use the above blank images to create/format the user disks.

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Re: A test that attempts to create a floppy disk image using the emulator

Post by Jeff »

Note : Since these HFE are already set in akai mode, don't touch the interface cfg menu setting on the emulator. If possible reset the emulator settings to the default values (To clear/reset all settings to the default values, press the Gotek’s right button at power up during 5 seconds, or use the embedded menu sub menu to clear the settings.)

SOUKIN
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Re: A test that attempts to create a floppy disk image using the emulator

Post by SOUKIN »

Jeff wrote:
Thu Mar 31, 2022 9:43 am
Note : Since these HFE are already set in akai mode, don't touch the interface cfg menu setting on the emulator. If possible reset the emulator settings to the default values (To clear/reset all settings to the default values, press the Gotek’s right button at power up during 5 seconds, or use the embedded menu sub menu to clear the settings.)
I used 1.44M standard HD, Akai HD and Akai HD (360rpm) on hxc firmware and FF firmware respectively. The experimental results are as follows:

1. Dinosour, three kinds of images can create user disk, but the prompt of "user disk exception" occasionally appears when save game(1.44M appears more frequently,and it is possible to keep repeating the prompt of "please insert user disk"), but you can successfully save the game after trying several times.

2. The legend of heros2: three kinds of images can create user disks, but occasionally there will be errors during creation, which can be created only after multiple attempts. It is normal to save games after creation

3.Princess maker 2. can save games, but the speed of checking disk and saving games is significantly slower than 1.44M + IBM PC HD,

4. MS-DOS ,occasionally, the error "floppy drive is not ready" appears after formatting several tracks. You can format it after multiple attempts, but there must be a few bad blocks, it is found that the track is not neat by track analysis,, some bad tracks appear, and some tracks are moved to other tracks,

5. Townsos, cannot be formatted,it directly prompts for read-write errors, and there is only once "floppy drive is not ready"

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Re: A test that attempts to create a floppy disk image using the emulator

Post by Jeff »

I am not sure to which firmware these results apply, but i only provide support for the HxC Firmware. I can't help for the others implementations.

What are the results with the HxCFEUSB_V4_2_8_4a.UPD firmware ? (available in the WIP_Firmware folder : https://hxc2001.com/download/floppy_dri ... rmware.zip)

Can you share some blank images formatted with the HxC firmware ? (If possible share one image per game, i will check the format andl see if raw/img can be used instead of the hfe file)

Have you tried a faster/different USB stick ?

Do you see the "SWAPMEM.BIN" file on your usb stick ? (this is an hidden file)

SOUKIN
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Re: A test that attempts to create a floppy disk image using the emulator

Post by SOUKIN »

Jeff wrote:
Fri Apr 01, 2022 7:33 am
I am not sure to which firmware these results apply, but i only provide support for the HxC Firmware. I can't help for the others implementations.

What are the results with the HxCFEUSB_V4_2_8_4a.UPD firmware ? (available in the WIP_Firmware folder : https://hxc2001.com/download/floppy_dri ... rmware.zip)

Can you share some blank images formatted with the HxC firmware ? (If possible share one image per game, i will check the format andl see if raw/img can be used instead of the hfe file)

Have you tried a faster/different USB stick ?

Do you see the "SWAPMEM.BIN" file on your usb stick ? (this is an hidden file)
This includes two results, and the results are similar (unfortunately, the FF firmware seems to be smoother)

The USB flash drive I use is SanDisk Cruzer fit(16GB),But it seems to be USB2.0.In addition, I also used Hikvision (4GB), but I didn't use it because it was too big.

usb3 0 is better?


The trouble is, when I change the floppy drive every time , I need to remove many parts of the FM towns computer before I can replace it. I have to take my time,recently, I have been busy with my work. This experiment may last for a long time. In short, thank you for your continuous attention.

Also, I use at32 gotek (it seems hard to buy STM32 now)

SOUKIN
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Re: A test that attempts to create a floppy disk image using the emulator

Post by SOUKIN »

Jeff wrote:
Fri Apr 01, 2022 7:33 am
I am not sure to which firmware these results apply, but i only provide support for the HxC Firmware. I can't help for the others implementations.

What are the results with the HxCFEUSB_V4_2_8_4a.UPD firmware ? (available in the WIP_Firmware folder : https://hxc2001.com/download/floppy_dri ... rmware.zip)

Can you share some blank images formatted with the HxC firmware ? (If possible share one image per game, i will check the format andl see if raw/img can be used instead of the hfe file)

Have you tried a faster/different USB stick ?

Do you see the "SWAPMEM.BIN" file on your usb stick ? (this is an hidden file)
and there is a test hfe image,formatted by MS-DOS for FM-TOWNS,The original image comes from a 1.44M image.


New discovery: the mirrored tracks will become more and more "neat" with multiple formatting(TEST2,from akai 360RPM), During the formatting process, the track will be read more and more smoothly,but there are still inevitable bad blocks
Attachments
TEST2.zip
(31.78 KiB) Downloaded 150 times
test.zip
(91.56 KiB) Downloaded 170 times

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Re: A test that attempts to create a floppy disk image using the emulator

Post by Jeff »

The main issue is that the current AT32 based Goteks don't have enough RAM memory to temporary store a complete formatted track, so the emulator must write/flush the formatted track to the USB stick in real time. Unfortunately if the USB stick write latency is too important, part(s) of the track may be lost/corrupted.
This is the major hardware issue since the STM32 was replaced by the AT32 parts due to the electronic components shortage.
The latest HxC firmware version try to mitigate this issue with a special SWAPFILE.BIN file to flush the data as fast as possible but you anyway need to have a decent USB stick to make it work properly... ( You should anyway try a different usb stick :wink: )

Regarding your case i think that the current workaround to apply is :

- Try to format the blank images with all the mentioned games.
- Share all HFE files here, even if the format has failed.
- I will make good pre-formatted images from your files with the HxC software.
- Disable the format support in the firmware to avoid to destroy the tracks and just use the new and clean pre-formatted images as user disk.
I will send you firmware with a new menu option to disable/enable the format support.
With this scheme you should have reliable operations, even with the low memory AT32 Goteks.

Please note that Gotek System are currently preparing a more powerful Gotek model based on an bigger AT32 with more memory to address these issues. I should receive a prototype quite soon to port the HxC firmware to this new design.

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