Kaypro 2/84 question/problem

HxC Floppy emulator support for all others computers...
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Olipix
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Kaypro 2/84 question/problem

Post by Olipix »

Hi there.

I have a Kaypro 2/84 with ROM 81-292.
I have a Gotek flashed with HxC firmware, an modded with an OLED display.

Of all the disk images I've found on the net or that people sent me (hundreds), only 5 work after I converted them to HFE format withe the HxCFloppyEmulator program.
These 5 disks really work well. I can see the content and launch programs. They work fine.

But I'm having problems with all other disks. What I'm doing wrong ?
I thought that by converting them in HFE format and it will be ok, but apparently not.
Can someone help me on this ?

Jeff
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Re: Kaypro 2/84 question/problem

Post by Jeff »

Please share the working HFE, the non working HFE and the "source" file image used.

Olipix
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Re: Kaypro 2/84 question/problem

Post by Olipix »

Hi Jeff. Merci pour la réponse.

Find some disks and this archive :
https://old-computers.com/download/Kayp ... -Disks.zip

There are two directories.
One with a HFE working.
And another one with some of the HFE not working, and sources when I had them.

Thanks for your help.

Jeff
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Re: Kaypro 2/84 question/problem

Post by Jeff »

Sound to be a bitrate setting issue, but are you sure that xmodem.hfe is working ?

You can try right now to force the bitrate to 250000 in the embedded menu.

Olipix
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Re: Kaypro 2/84 question/problem

Post by Olipix »

Your are right xmodem.hfe is not working either.

I chose a bitrate of 25K in the embeded menu but it doesn't work either...
When I try to DIR thoses disks, nothing happen... whereas the others work fine...

Could it be related to this :
"Keep in mind when exploring other disk images a SSDD booted disk will not read DSDD disks swapped in."
This sentence was found here : https://www.reddit.com/r/vintagecomputi ... k/fx2qzk3/

Thanks

Jeff
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Re: Kaypro 2/84 question/problem

Post by Jeff »

Is the attached image working ?
Xmodem_hfe_xml.hfe.zip
(87.15 KiB) Downloaded 17 times

Olipix
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Re: Kaypro 2/84 question/problem

Post by Olipix »

Ok I just tried this disk (xmodem) and it doesn't work either :-(
(bitrate is still forced to 25k)

I've recorded the whole process here :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TdRoCtGYbbI

Thanks for any further help.
I would really love to read the other disks

Jeff
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Re: Kaypro 2/84 question/problem

Post by Jeff »

I don't know why, but it seems that the machine is trying to read the opposite side (S:1) for some reasons in your video.
Just to try i have swapped the sides in the attached image.

Xmodem_hfe_xml_hfe.hfe.zip
(87.19 KiB) Downloaded 15 times

Olipix
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Re: Kaypro 2/84 question/problem

Post by Olipix »

Sadly it doesn't work either...
The only difference is the Gotek making more noise (I have piezzo mod), trying to read track 1 and 0 on and on....

Jeff
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Re: Kaypro 2/84 question/problem

Post by Jeff »

Ok so the issue is : All these single sided disks don't work while double sided images work perfectly.

Questions :
- Are single sided images common for the Kaypro ?
- Have you tried these single sided images in an emulator ?

I see 2 possibilities :
-> these imd are bad. (double sided disks dumped as single sided disk...)
or
-> there is an issue in the pc hxc software.

I need to load them in ImageDisk to compare with the HxC tool.

Jeff
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Re: Kaypro 2/84 question/problem

Post by Jeff »

mhh interesting :

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kaypro
Some Kaypro II units—probably the earliest ones—have the 81-110 mainboard, which lacks the connection of the side-select signal and so can only control single-sided drives. Other Kaypro II units have the 81-240 mainboard: this is the same board used in the Kaypro 4, so it has that signal connected and can support double-sided drives. However, the Kaypro II and Kaypro 4, which have no equipment differences other than the installed floppy disk drives, also had different monitor ROM versions (as of Sept. 1985), so it might be necessary to replace that ROM at the same time double-sided drives are installed in the Kaypro II, effectively completing its conversion to a Kaypro 4 (except for the exterior finish). In the 1980s, the Kaypro 4 ROM could have been bought from Kaypro. In the 21st century, 8-bit Kaypro ROM images can be found on the web, but a vintage original Kaypro II might retain more value if kept in the original stock condition. Fortunately, all modifications discussed here are fully reversible, provided the original ROM is kept and stored appropriately to protect it. Technical fact source: Kaypro Technical Manual, Sep. 1985, Kaypro part # 1484-F.

Olipix
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Re: Kaypro 2/84 question/problem

Post by Olipix »

Thanks again for your time.
I think this is the right direction.

My original drives in this Kaypro II/84 are TEC FB-501 5.25" floppy drives, which are Single Sided Double Density.
The ROM version I have on the motherboard is 81-292. It is not clear if this ROM can manage double sided disks...
In the link you sent me, later Kaypro models use the same ROM and can read double sided disks... I'm confused here.

What can I do from here ?
Is it possible to create single sided/double density disks from scratch with HxCFloppyEmulator program ? If so, can you tell me how ?
Can I extract some programs from the double sided disks and transfer them to a single sided disk ?

Thanks for your help.

Olipix
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Re: Kaypro 2/84 question/problem

Post by Olipix »

But are you sure that the disks I can read so far are single sided ?
When I load them with HxCFloppyEmulator, it says 40 tracks/2 Sides... double sided then ?

Or is it the contrary ? Can I only read double sided disks ?
The one I can read show indeed 2 sides in HxCFloppyEMulator
Wherease those that I can't read show 1 side in HxCFloppyEMulator...

Olipix
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Re: Kaypro 2/84 question/problem

Post by Olipix »

So, I have tested all the disks and I can conclude that :

- Double sided disks can be read by my setup
- But all other disks I have found on the net or that have been sent to me by Kaypro users are recognised as Single Sided disks by HxC, and I can't read them

So I have tried :

- to create an empty HFE disk with these parameters, which seems to be the one used by working disks:

Image

but I don't know how to add programs on this blank disks created this way.
If I test just the empty disk, It doesn't seem to work

- I though maybe I could try to load a single sided disk in HxC, then add a second side, then save the disk to make it a double sided disk, but I don't know how to do that...

Jeff
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Re: Kaypro 2/84 question/problem

Post by Jeff »

The attached firmware ignore the side signal. This turn the hxc gotek into a single sided drive.
I bet that with this firmware the single sided disks will work. (and the double sided disks will not work anymore)
If this is confirmed / verified then the issue is somewhere in the Kaypro (probably the ROM).
HxCUSBFE.UPD.zip
(87.65 KiB) Downloaded 17 times

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