PPG Waveterm A and B working

HxC Floppy emulator support for all others Keyboards/Samplers...
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sllaci
Posts: 8
Joined: Wed May 06, 2020 9:15 pm

PPG Waveterm A and B working

Post by sllaci »

Hello PPG Fan

In the last few weeks, I have been able to install HxC products on a PPG Waveterm system!
I put Youtube links at the end of the post.

I tested these combinations:
USB HxC (rev.C) with Waveterm A
USB HxC (rev.C) with Waveterm B

SD HxC (rev.C) with Waveterm A
SD HxC (rev.C) with Waveterm B

All of these combinations work, with some reservations

Several Wavtems have been tested with different hardware designs.
There were several hardware changes during the years of production
These are as follows:
1: Waveterm A: Eltec v7.1 mainboard (tested)
2: Waveterm A: Eltec v7.2 mainboard (tested)
3: Waveterm B: Eltec v7.2 and Expander B (523) mainboard (not tested)
4: Waveterm B: Eltec v7.2 and Expander B (528) mainboard (tested)
5: Waveterm B: PPG 6809 (521) and Expander B (528) mainboard (not tested)
Since WTA upgrade was possible after the release of WavetermB, a combination of WTB and Eltec v7.1 is also possible.

This sequence is what I have experienced. Because there is no official and detailed factory description of these. If anyone has any other opinions, please share them. It also enriches the PPG knowledge repository.

The variations that definitely work well:
SD HxC - Waveterm B with Eltec v7.2
SD Hxc - Waveterm A with Eltec v7.1 and v7.2
USB Hxc - Waveterm A and B with Eltec v7.1 and v7.2

NOT Working:
SD HxC - Waveterm B with Eltec v7.1 board !!!!!

This is a very interesting case. I don't understand why.
But Jeff will definitely be able to give you more ideas.
The error: Reading stops during the boot process.
This is possible in any sector. 02-22.
(reads 0-25 sector in well-functioning case)

Some details about Eltec differences:
The two boards are 99% identical.
The controller is MB8877A or WD 1793
But there is a significant difference between floppy rdata and rdata clk.
v7.1: SMC COM8146
v7.2: SMC COM9216B
Floppy rdata has a pull-up resistance of 560ohm.
I tried to replace this (AkaiS950 mod) 680ohm to 2.2K.
It didn't get any better.


The 50 to 34 pin converter is the factory PPG.
The connection:
50pin 34pin 50pin 34pin
14 32 34 18
18 4 36 20
20 8 38 22
22 34 40 24
26 10 42 26
28 12 44 28
30 14 46 30
32 6


I hope this is helpful information for everyone
I welcome any comments.
I hope there was no mistake in my writing.
(Don't be mad at my very poor English)

Thanks
Laszlo

sllaci
Posts: 8
Joined: Wed May 06, 2020 9:15 pm

Re: PPG Waveterm A and B working

Post by sllaci »

Hello

I was thinking of uploading the used HFE files.
This might help everyone.
Jeff: I hope that's not a problem


WTBSYS11_IMD.zip
Waceterm B System 1.01
(191.7 KiB) Downloaded 34 times
WTA_233_IMD.zip
Waveterm A System 2.33
(171.26 KiB) Downloaded 40 times

Thanks
Laszlo

sllaci
Posts: 8
Joined: Wed May 06, 2020 9:15 pm

Re: PPG Waveterm A and B working

Post by sllaci »

Hello

Here is the videos:

Waveterm A USB HxC:
https://youtu.be/k_7hX6PKyDU

Waveterm B USB HxC:
https://youtu.be/9WY9DE6hOGY

Waveterm A SD HxC:
https://youtu.be/c0jY8zWtfg4

Waveterm B SD HxC
https://youtu.be/3Bo4Jsc9jTY

Waveterm floppy cable converter:
https://youtu.be/2syX3Vx_tP4


Thanks
Laszlo

sllaci
Posts: 8
Joined: Wed May 06, 2020 9:15 pm

Re: PPG Waveterm A and B working

Post by sllaci »

Hello

Waveterm B and USB HxC
Difficulty with image replacement, when using "drive B"

I missed a little difficulty.
But this can be seen in the video.
Need to switch ID 0-> 1 twice back and forth.
Waveterm does not use a DiskChange signal.
Therefore, at first you do not notice that HFE has been replaced.

Thanks
Laszlo

Jeff
Site Admin
Posts: 7291
Joined: Fri Oct 20, 2006 12:12 am
Location: Paris
Contact:

Re: PPG Waveterm A and B working

Post by Jeff »

sllaci wrote:
Sat May 16, 2020 10:45 pm

NOT Working:
SD HxC - Waveterm B with Eltec v7.1 board !!!!!

This is a very interesting case. I don't understand why.
But Jeff will definitely be able to give you more ideas.
The error: Reading stops during the boot process.
This is possible in any sector. 02-22.
(reads 0-25 sector in well-functioning case)

Some details about Eltec differences:
The two boards are 99% identical.
The controller is MB8877A or WD 1793
But there is a significant difference between floppy rdata and rdata clk.
v7.1: SMC COM8146
v7.2: SMC COM9216B
Floppy rdata has a pull-up resistance of 560ohm.
I tried to replace this (AkaiS950 mod) 680ohm to 2.2K.
It didn't get any better.


The 50 to 34 pin converter is the factory PPG.
The connection:
50pin 34pin 50pin 34pin
14 32 34 18
18 4 36 20
20 8 38 22
22 34 40 24
26 10 42 26
28 12 44 28
30 14 46 30
32 6
Maybe it need pull-up on the ready and diskchange signal
or/and
Maybe it need the ready signal matching with the motor on signal.
You can enable this mode on the emulator : add a jumper to ID3-B and use a config file with this option enabled (Set "Drive B input as Drives Motor On" and disable "2 drives emulation" if you don't use the second drive on the emulator)

sllaci
Posts: 8
Joined: Wed May 06, 2020 9:15 pm

Re: PPG Waveterm A and B working

Post by sllaci »

Hello Jeff

Thanks Your help!!!!
I will try, I hope today

Laszlo

sllaci
Posts: 8
Joined: Wed May 06, 2020 9:15 pm

Re: PPG Waveterm A and B working

Post by sllaci »

Hello Jeff

I tried these options.
Unfortunately, it didn't help.
Diskchange does not use Eltec board.
Ready line pull-up is 180ohm at the factory.

I discovered the difference between the two boards. (I attached 2 pictures)
The original Eltec 7.1 has minor modifications
Eltec 7.2 has built-in FDC9216 on the ReadData signal and no IS106.
ReadData is connected directly to FDC9216
This solved read errors.
If someone has Eltec 7.1, it is possible to modify it.
Eltec 7.1 board floppy Sch
Eltec 7.1 board floppy Sch
Eltec 7.1 Floppy.jpg (227.81 KiB) Viewed 1057 times
Eltec 7.1 board floppy Sch
Eltec 7.1 board floppy Sch
Eltec 7.2 Floppy.jpg (44.28 KiB) Viewed 1057 times

USB HxC question:
Eltec boards do not use DiskChange signal.
Therefore, when I replace a disk with UsbHxC, it does not notice.
Only if I switch ID0> 1 twice.
Is there a possible setting in the program that interrupts Ready and again when opening a new disk image?


I will once again describe a 50 to 34 converter because it is not well understood before:
Floppy 50 to34 pin converter
Floppy 50 to34 pin converter
Floppy 50 to34 pin converter.jpg (16.23 KiB) Viewed 1057 times
Greetings
Laszlo

sllaci
Posts: 8
Joined: Wed May 06, 2020 9:15 pm

Re: PPG Waveterm A and B working

Post by sllaci »

Hello

I prepared some more tests.
These are all Waveterm A and Sample loading

SD HxC:
It works perfectly

USB HxC:
Here too, everything is fine, but it goes a little harder
Waveterm A often reads system disk when starting new functions.
Therefore, it is more difficult to load from ID1
Many times need to ID0 and system disk because you get an error message: "Drive not ready" or other
This is because WTA cannot reach ID0.
But everything works fine

Here is Youtube links:
SD HxC
https://youtu.be/5huhiBTHqQc
USB HxC
https://youtu.be/asu5VWU-hWw
https://youtu.be/DWmvalqL0dY

Greetings
Laszlo

Jeff
Site Admin
Posts: 7291
Joined: Fri Oct 20, 2006 12:12 am
Location: Paris
Contact:

Re: PPG Waveterm A and B working

Post by Jeff »

For the USB HxC i think you just need to increase the USB buffer size.

sllaci
Posts: 8
Joined: Wed May 06, 2020 9:15 pm

Re: PPG Waveterm A and B working

Post by sllaci »

Hello Jeff

But where should this be set??

Thanks

vladiwm
Posts: 1
Joined: Thu Jun 18, 2020 11:00 am

Re: PPG Waveterm A and B working

Post by vladiwm »

Hi guys, sorry for the off-topic. Can anybody here make a dump of SAMPLES 8" floppy disks of PPG Waveterm A?
I am an software/hardware development engineer from Waldorf Music GmbH, we are seeking for those 8-bit samples of PPG WT A for many many years.

For the details of collaboration, you could contact me directly at vladimir.salnikov _AT_ waldorfmusic.com

We will appreciate any help!

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