Oric floppy images support

HxC Floppy emulator support for all others computers...
Nightbird72
Posts: 8
Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2011 6:24 pm

Re: Oric floppy images support

Post by Nightbird72 » Sun Jul 24, 2011 11:03 pm

Thank you Jeff. Here is the last update, with inclinable emulator!

Well, I am using FDC 1793 on Cumana2 PCB.
Godzil is using also FDC 1793, but on standard Microdisc PCB.

JihemB: is your system 'Oric+Controler+drive' working fine without HxC ? If the system has some mistakes (R/W TRACK ERROR) on a real Oric, not susprising the HxC failed: I am thinking about a bad setup of the controler - MAP timing - (need scope to verify).

Could you take pictures of the Oric motherboard, and the controler (if you have the right screwdriver!). Some mods made by Oric generates mistakes.

Did you tried to use Sedoric 3.0 (I think not, reading http://www.silicium.org/forum/viewtopic ... 61&t=29481). Sedoric 3.0 is a major version and I think is the best DOS to test a system.

Best regards,

Thierry
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JihemB
Posts: 16
Joined: Tue Jul 19, 2011 8:47 am

Re: Oric floppy images support

Post by JihemB » Mon Jul 25, 2011 9:21 am

JihemB: is your system 'Oric+Controler+drive' working fine without HxC ? If the system has some mistakes (R/W TRACK ERROR) on a real Oric, not susprising the HxC failed: I am thinking about a bad setup of the controler - MAP timing - (need scope to verify).
Thierry, I'm able to boot up using ORIC DOS 1.1 as I said. When I wanted to make a safe copy this boot disk (using !BACKUP 0 to 0) it failed since there are some read errors. I assumed this is because the original disc is very old because I was able to format new 3" discs (but never tried to fill them up completly however). Could it be an harware issue ?
Could you take pictures of the Oric motherboard, and the controler (if you have the right screwdriver!). Some mods made by Oric generates mistakes.
I will do this when I get the appropriate screwdriver :-)
Did you tried to use Sedoric 3.0 (I think not, reading http://www.silicium.org/forum/viewtopic ... 61&t=29481). Sedoric 3.0 is a major version and I think is the best DOS to test a system.
Unfortunately not yet ! As I explain, my plan was to copy a Sedoric 3.0 from HxC to the actual (genuine) 3" disc to boot on it (and forget Oric DOS). But all the Sedoric .DSK images I have are 80 tracks/2 sides image and it seems that the Microdisc (or the Oric Dos 1.1) can not backup such format on an actual 3" disc (I still wait for witness to say if it is true or not).

BTW : As mentionned in my previous post, using the !SYS command, I declared my Microdisc as a 80 track/2 sides drive and formated a 3" disc using this setting. Once the "!FORMAT" completed, Oric says 2558 free on the disc, but does he fake me ? Did he really succeeded or just wrote the (wrong) free empty space on the first sector ?

Regards,

JihemB

Nightbird72
Posts: 8
Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2011 6:24 pm

Re: Oric floppy images support

Post by Nightbird72 » Mon Jul 25, 2011 10:22 pm

Hi JihemB,

this evening I made successfull tests:
1) download ORICDOS V1.13 (http://oric.free.fr/DISKS/oricdos.zip) and convert it to HFE format.
2) boot with HxC, and backup drive 0 (HxC) to real drive (1): !FORMAT 1 then !BACKUP 0 TO 1.
3) with only real drive on ORIC, boot with the last created floppy.

- All without any errors on the 2 following controlers: Cumana2/SAB 1793 and Microdisc/FDC 1793 (please see the last setup on the photo below).

* If you have read errors with real floppy, perharps it is the floppy (altered) and/or the drive (old - perhaps need also cleaning), and/or controler tuning and/or motherboard tuning and/or PSU. Remark: 80 tracks are also not recommended on Oric for reliability.
* Oric PSU (Power Supply Unit) have poor reliability (bad voltages). In the past, I saw a such PSU burn in front of me! Today, in the Oric Community, we are using PC PSU (and 3 1/2 real floppy drives).
* So I suggest you to test a generated floppy (see http://www.silicium.org/forum/viewtopic ... 61&t=29481), and boot it with a PC PSU and 3 1/2 drive on you controler (as the picture below).
- If it is OK, you will connect your 3" drive and try to backup the system.
- If not OK, It will be necessary to tune the controler or the Motherboard (please send us pictures to analyse them), or change the 3" drive.

Best regards,

Thierry
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Nightbird72
Posts: 8
Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2011 6:24 pm

Re: Oric floppy images support

Post by Nightbird72 » Mon Jul 25, 2011 10:45 pm

JihemB:

if you are a CEO member, why don't you try to use the last Oric floppy (edisk of june 2011, Ceoz1106.dsk), it is SEDORIC 3 (42 tracks/17 sectors/2 sides), boot it on HxC then try backup to 3" floppy drive (BACKUP A TO B or B TO A)?

Best regards,

Thierry

JihemB
Posts: 16
Joined: Tue Jul 19, 2011 8:47 am

Re: Oric floppy images support

Post by JihemB » Tue Jul 26, 2011 8:28 am

Hi Thierry,

Thanks for your detailed step by step procedure.
As you know, I have to find the appropriate screwdriver (I borrowed at my office yesterday but although it was long enough unfortunately it wasn't large enough so I didn't succeed in opening the Microdisc unit) to setup the HxC as the first drive and even take some pictures on the inside. I'll try to go to "BHV" after job day to find one...

So I'll be back on this thread as soon as I have open the unit, take some pictures and... have some new results :-)

Regards,

JihemB

JihemB
Posts: 16
Joined: Tue Jul 19, 2011 8:47 am

Re: Oric floppy images support

Post by JihemB » Wed Jul 27, 2011 11:40 pm

Hi guys !

I finally found an appropriate screwdriver.

Here is how the controller looks like internally :
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DSC03012.JPG
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What do you think ?

JihemB

JihemB
Posts: 16
Joined: Tue Jul 19, 2011 8:47 am

Re: Oric floppy images support

Post by JihemB » Wed Jul 27, 2011 11:43 pm

This is the 3" disc drive unit.

It is an Hitachi HFD305S model.

What is the switches position I should set to make this drive 1 (aka drive 'B') ?
[edit] According with "Romuald" Oric site, it seems that I have to set switch 1-ON and 2-OFF[/edit]
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JihemB

Nightbird72
Posts: 8
Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2011 6:24 pm

Re: Oric floppy images support

Post by Nightbird72 » Thu Jul 28, 2011 1:13 pm

JihemB wrote:Hi guys !

I finally found an appropriate screwdriver.

Here is how the controller looks like internally :
DSC03010.JPG
DSC03011.JPG
DSC03012.JPG
What do you think ?

JihemB
Hi,

controler component side seems OK (no remark), what about the solder side (is there an additionnal transistor on it ?).
Please send us pictures of your Oric motherboard (component and solder side), to see mods (if exists).

Thierry

JihemB
Posts: 16
Joined: Tue Jul 19, 2011 8:47 am

Re: Oric floppy images support

Post by JihemB » Thu Jul 28, 2011 6:33 pm

Hi,
what about the solder side (is there an additionnal transistor on it ?).
Will try to take a picture tonight. I don't remember any extra-transistor.
Please send us pictures of your Oric motherboard (component and solder side), to see mods (if exists).
Oh... I'll have to open my Oric too (never did before !). Not happy with this since it currently works fine and I will loose my garantee from Oric International if I remove the screw under the serial number :-)

JihemB

Nightbird72
Posts: 8
Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2011 6:24 pm

Re: Oric floppy images support

Post by Nightbird72 » Fri Jul 29, 2011 7:05 am

Hi,

remember that (old) flat cables are often responsible of bad working.
Do not forget that. So check also your connections or build new/replace cables.

Thierry

JihemB
Posts: 16
Joined: Tue Jul 19, 2011 8:47 am

Re: Oric floppy images support

Post by JihemB » Fri Jul 29, 2011 8:43 pm

Hello, I'm back with some new results !

First of all, this is the solder side of the controller motherboard :
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JihemB

JihemB
Posts: 16
Joined: Tue Jul 19, 2011 8:47 am

Re: Oric floppy images support

Post by JihemB » Fri Jul 29, 2011 9:07 pm

OK, here are some new results.

I found at last how to configure HxC as my drive 0 (or A, or boot drive) and my Microdisc as my drive 1 (or B, or slave drive).
With this configuration, I booted up successfully with some .DSK images I have (such as SEDORIC or games) :-)

Here are the settings I used (HcX software drive letter is A) :
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But unfortunately I never be able to make a backup of my sedoric .DSK onto my actual 3" diskette :-(
Each time, when backup is finished, when I tried "DIR B", I got a "Undefined format error" message...

I tried several combination of DTRACK command but it was useless.

Then I understood that at the end Microdisc is in fact a 1 sided disc drive (you have to flip manually the disc to access side 2 !!).
Whatever the TRACK or DTRACK command I set (even if the SYS command says Drive B is 1 side) the BACKUP command tried to copy the 2 sides of the SEDORIC disc without asking me to flip the 3" to drive B (so the tool rewrite the side 1 tracks with side 2 tracks). Perhaps I missed something ?

To proof my idea, I reseted the computer just when BACKUP was finished with the last track of the first side. Then I rebooted (on HxC) and performed a DIR B and... tada !! This time I got a list of files, not an error.

So now regarding what I explain here, did I missed a (special) command somewhere or is there an issue/limitation regarding HxC ? In other words, would it be possible I have some "so-called" 2 sided .DSK file that actually comes from a 1+1 side (you understand what I mean...) actual disc ? Would it required somewhere a "flip disc side" HxC command ?

JihemB

pulkomandy
Posts: 132
Joined: Sun Mar 20, 2011 6:55 pm

Re: Oric floppy images support

Post by pulkomandy » Sun Jul 31, 2011 9:20 am

The same way you do it with a 3" disk : you have to remove the floppy side A and insert the floppy side B. With HxC, you need to have these as two different files and swap between them :)

JihemB
Posts: 16
Joined: Tue Jul 19, 2011 8:47 am

Re: Oric floppy images support

Post by JihemB » Sun Jul 31, 2011 3:01 pm

Hi !
pulkomandy wrote:With HxC, you need to have these as two different files and swap between them
Exactly what I guessed !

Is there a tool or method to do this (split one 2 sides .DSK or .HFE file into two 1 side .DSK or .HFE files) ?

JihemB

JihemB
Posts: 16
Joined: Tue Jul 19, 2011 8:47 am

Re: Oric floppy images support

Post by JihemB » Thu Aug 11, 2011 12:17 pm

Hi guys,

I assume you no longer reply since it is August and you may be on holidays...

Even with the help of Jeff (that provided me a special firmware for HxC that support side flipping) when I boot on SEDORIC HxC image, whatever the SYS, DSYS, ... command I use, the BACKUP command continues to consider that both drives are 2 sided ones (it formats side 1 and copy tracks from side 1 also).
When I perform a DIR command on SEDORIC Hxc it says (D/17/42) that confirms the drive is seen as a double sided one (unless the disk image must be patched to really consider the disc as a two single side one).
Perhaps it is also a cable issue (should I twist/cut some parts to have HxC seen as a single side drive ?).

So as a result I still unable to create my own actual 3" SEDORIC disc (or copy any double-side .DSK image) since all the HxC (or the HFE image inside) is considered as a double-sided drive by the controller.

Any forthcoming suggestion or test would be welcome.

Regards,

JihemB

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