Double Dutch SAM-1 for Korg Synths

HxC Floppy emulator support for all others Keyboards/Samplers...
Jeff
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Re: Double Dutch SAM-1 for Korg Synths

Post by Jeff » Sun Dec 23, 2018 11:51 pm

ilmenator wrote:
Sun Dec 23, 2018 11:40 pm
Hmmh, I was afraid of that. The thing is that the SAM-1 does not start without the OS system loaded, which I can only do from the floppy drive. If I then want to format the HxC disk image, I would have to hot swap the floppy drive and the HxC Gotek. Is that advisable?? How big is the risk of damaging something?
First retry with this disk :
https://hxc2001.com/vrac/DemoDisk.hfe.zip
(But is this one bootable ?)

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Re: Double Dutch SAM-1 for Korg Synths

Post by Jeff » Sun Dec 23, 2018 11:57 pm


ilmenator
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Re: Double Dutch SAM-1 for Korg Synths

Post by ilmenator » Sun Dec 23, 2018 11:57 pm

Jeff wrote:
Sun Dec 23, 2018 11:51 pm
First retry with this disk :
https://hxc2001.com/vrac/DemoDisk.hfe.zip
Unfortunately, this one gives me the "Disk error" message on the SAM-1 as well...

ilmenator
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Re: Double Dutch SAM-1 for Korg Synths

Post by ilmenator » Mon Dec 24, 2018 12:01 am

Jeff wrote:
Sun Dec 23, 2018 11:57 pm
Try this one instead :
https://hxc2001.com/vrac/Version_21.zip
Same here: "Disk error" on the SAM-1's display... If it was just the wrong type of disk (sound disk instead of system disk) then I would get a "This is not a system disk" warning instead of the error message.

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Re: Double Dutch SAM-1 for Korg Synths

Post by Jeff » Mon Dec 24, 2018 12:07 am

ilmenator wrote:
Mon Dec 24, 2018 12:01 am
Jeff wrote:
Sun Dec 23, 2018 11:57 pm
Try this one instead :
https://hxc2001.com/vrac/Version_21.zip
Same here: "Disk error" on the SAM-1's display... If it was just the wrong type of disk (sound disk instead of system disk) then I would get a "This is not a system disk" warning instead of the error message.
Can you retry with the PC HD, DD, S900 DD and S950 modes ? (reset all settings before doing the tests -> "Clear Eeprom" menu)
(And try it with the normal and the "not gated" firmware).

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Re: Double Dutch SAM-1 for Korg Synths

Post by ilmenator » Mon Dec 24, 2018 12:35 am

Ok, here is the first success: I can load the OS system disk with

- v3.1.30.2a_NG
- S950_DD or S950_DD_HD
- both your and my original variant of Version_21 system disk

Hoooray! Thanks!! Maybe this is due to the < clear EEPROM > I had not done before?

I then tried to format my "formatted.hfe" image, but the SAM-1 says "Disk write protected" although the firmware setting is set to < Wr enabled >.

ilmenator
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Re: Double Dutch SAM-1 for Korg Synths

Post by ilmenator » Mon Dec 24, 2018 1:35 am

Here are a few more observations:

When loading sound disks in the Gotek (sound disk images, i.e. .hfe files), I am having trouble every now and then. Some of the disks throw me disk errors every now and then, and I can see the track number in the display jumping, e.g. from 25 back to 24 then 25 then 24 etc. - sometimes it loads successful, sometimes the SAM-1 gives a "Disk error" message. It seems to be somewhat more stable when set to S950_DD than when set to S950_DD_HD. However, I do not understand how this could happen at all, given that the data that the Gotek/HxC is reading is exactly the same every time the disk image is loaded... Is there anything I can do to make this more reliable?

Also, I don't quite understand why the S950_DD setting works at all when the original floppy disks clearly are HD formatted disks!?

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Re: Double Dutch SAM-1 for Korg Synths

Post by Jeff » Mon Dec 24, 2018 2:06 am

ilmenator wrote:
Mon Dec 24, 2018 1:35 am
Here are a few more observations:

When loading sound disks in the Gotek (sound disk images, i.e. .hfe files), I am having trouble every now and then. Some of the disks throw me disk errors every now and then, and I can see the track number in the display jumping, e.g. from 25 back to 24 then 25 then 24 etc. - sometimes it loads successful, sometimes the SAM-1 gives a "Disk error" message. It seems to be somewhat more stable when set to S950_DD than when set to S950_DD_HD. However, I do not understand how this could happen at all, given that the data that the Gotek/HxC is reading is exactly the same every time the disk image is loaded... Is there anything I can do to make this more reliable?
I see 2 possibilities for this issue :

- Slow USB stick : Try another brand/model.
or/(and)
- Bad interleaving / gap setting : To get the right parameters try to format one image with the machine and share it here.
ilmenator wrote:
Mon Dec 24, 2018 1:35 am
Also, I don't quite understand why the S950_DD setting works at all when the original floppy disks clearly are HD formatted disks!?
The interface setting just set the pin 02 & 34 to a particular state. The image still in high density.

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Re: Double Dutch SAM-1 for Korg Synths

Post by ilmenator » Mon Dec 24, 2018 12:40 pm

Jeff wrote:
Mon Dec 24, 2018 2:06 am
I see 2 possibilities for this issue :

- Slow USB stick : Try another brand/model.
I have tried three different USB sticks, I will try more.
Jeff wrote:
Mon Dec 24, 2018 2:06 am
- Bad interleaving / gap setting : To get the right parameters try to format one image with the machine and share it here.
There is the problem that I still cannot format the virtual floppies / images on the USB stick - I get the "Disk write protected" message on the SAM-1 when trying to do so, even though I have set the firmware to "Wr enabled". Are there more options?

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Re: Double Dutch SAM-1 for Korg Synths

Post by Jeff_HxC2001 » Mon Dec 24, 2018 5:27 pm

ilmenator wrote:
Mon Dec 24, 2018 12:40 pm
Jeff wrote:
Mon Dec 24, 2018 2:06 am
I see 2 possibilities for this issue :

- Slow USB stick : Try another brand/model.
I have tried three different USB sticks, I will try more.
Jeff wrote:
Mon Dec 24, 2018 2:06 am
- Bad interleaving / gap setting : To get the right parameters try to format one image with the machine and share it here.
There is the problem that I still cannot format the virtual floppies / images on the USB stick - I get the "Disk write protected" message on the SAM-1 when trying to do so, even though I have set the firmware to "Wr enabled". Are there more options?
This last point is quite strange. Can you ckeck with the not gated firmware that the write protection signal is high (~5v) with a voltmeter ? This is the pin number 28 on the connector.

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Re: Double Dutch SAM-1 for Korg Synths

Post by ilmenator » Mon Dec 24, 2018 6:27 pm

Yes, confirmed, I measure 4,94V on pin 28 on the Gotek (against any of the odd numbered pins on the connector which should all be GND).

What strikes me as somewhat odd when trying to do a format from the SAM-1 is that when a virtual disk is pre-selected in the Gotek, my SAM-1 asks me to insert a new disk to format. When I then switch the virtual disk by pressing the left or right (up/down) buttons, I immediately get the "Disk write protected" error, before I can actually select the virtual disk to format. If I then make my selection on the Gotek, the "Disk write protected" error remains.

So it somehow looks like a timing problem, in the sense that the SAM-1 is waiting for the "new disk inserted" signal from the Gotek, but when I try to create that by switching the virtual disks, the moment the device is without a selected disk my SAM-1 throws the "Disk write protected" error. Does this observation make any sense?

Edit: yes, I believe this makes sense as can I measure the pin 28 signal to go to 0V when no virtual disk is selected, and once it has been selected it gows up to 4,94V again.

Jeff_HxC2001
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Re: Double Dutch SAM-1 for Korg Synths

Post by Jeff_HxC2001 » Mon Dec 24, 2018 6:38 pm

Ok then i think that the interface mode still not the good one. Can you retry the shugart mode ?

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Re: Double Dutch SAM-1 for Korg Synths

Post by ilmenator » Mon Dec 24, 2018 7:26 pm

Ok, first issue with Shugart mode is that the system disk won't load - SAM-1 gives me a "Disk error" every time.

So, I switched to S950_DD mode for the system disk, which loads ok. Then I do an EEPROM erase on the Gotek and switch to Shugart mode, but the situation remains exactly the same as described in my previous post. Every time I switch the virtual disk I get the "Disk write protected" message, and with a pre-selected virtual disk SAM-1 asks me to insert a new Disk to be formatted.

All this is on the latest NG version, as the "regular" one won't even access the Gotek.

Should I just try all the other interface modes?

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Re: Double Dutch SAM-1 for Korg Synths

Post by Jeff_HxC2001 » Mon Dec 24, 2018 7:30 pm

ilmenator wrote:
Mon Dec 24, 2018 7:26 pm
Ok, first issue with Shugart mode is that the system disk won't load - SAM-1 gives me a "Disk error" every time.

So, I switched to S950_DD mode for the system disk, which loads ok. Then I do an EEPROM erase on the Gotek and switch to Shugart mode, but the situation remains exactly the same as described in my previous post. Every time I switch the virtual disk I get the "Disk write protected" message, and with a pre-selected virtual disk SAM-1 asks me to insert a new Disk to be formatted.

All this is on the latest NG version, as the "regular" one won't even access the Gotek.

Should I just try all the other interface modes?
Yes try the others mode (try the pc modes first). Is there a service manual/schematic somewhere ?

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Re: Double Dutch SAM-1 for Korg Synths

Post by ilmenator » Mon Dec 24, 2018 7:40 pm

No, service manuals or schematics are unobtainium, unfortunately. This device is really rare, and there is only very little information on it on the web. It was distributed by Zadok, a dutch company, and it went under the name of "Double Dutch SAM-1".
sam1.jpg
sam1.jpg (240.64 KiB) Viewed 1656 times
This is how it looks inside, maybe the chips around the floppy port give some hints?

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