Shugart SA851

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markus
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Shugart SA851

Post by markus » Thu Dec 13, 2012 4:52 pm

Hello

I am looking for an emulator for a Shugart SA851 8inch floppy drive and found your project.
There are over 800 disks which we need to emulate and all of them are read only. So I think the USB HxC attachted to a PC where the images are stored would be a good solution.

I Have a few questions to you:
1. To create the floppy images we cannot use one of your emulators but we need to attatch the floppy drive to a PC and then use any floppy dump software - correct?
2. Unfortunately we don't have a lot information about how the data is stored on the disks. It is a double density (MFM), double sided disk with 77 tracks and 32 hard sectors but fortunately is is treated as a soft sectored disk with 16 sectors so we don't need the SECTOR signal at the disk controller. The disk capacity is 1.2MB (1.6MB without sector formatting). In the attachment you can find a specification about the sector format. Can this format be emulated with your USB HxC?
4. The SA851has a 50pin interface but in our opinion this should work with the corresponding adaptor - can you confirm that?

If you need any other information about the floppy drive or the disk format to answer my questions - just let me know.

Kind regards
Markus
Attachments
SA851_Sector_Format.jpg
SA851_Sector_Format.jpg (197.19 KiB) Viewed 7943 times

Jeff
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Re: Shugart SA851

Post by Jeff » Thu Dec 13, 2012 7:40 pm

Here is my previous email :

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jean-François DEL NERO ( HxC2001 )"
To: ...
Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2012 7:35 AM
Subject: Re: Emulator for a Shugart SA851


> Hi,
>
>> 1. To create the floppy images we cannot use one of your emulators but
>> we need to attatch the floppy drive to a PC and then use any floppy dump
>> software - correct?
>
> Yes. To do this you can use the hxc software or ImageDisk software.
> But this will only work if the sectors are in the IBM/ISO FM or MFM format.
>
> The other solution is to use an KryoFlux for very special format disk to
> make a pulse-per-pulse copy.
>
> Regarding the sector format, this one is very similar to the standard FM
> format, but the Index/Data mark look differents (A1FE / A1F8).
> To be tested on a PC : The dump may work if the missing clock are the same
> as the standard : 0xC7
>
> What is the FDC used by your machine ?
>
>> 2. Unfortunately we don't have a lot information about how the data is
>> stored on the disks. It is a double density (MFM), double sided disk
>> with 77 tracks and 32 hard sectors but fortunately is is treated as a
>> soft sectored disk with 16 sectors so we don't need the SECTOR signal at
>> the disk controller. The disk capacity is 1.2MB (1.6MB without sector
>> formatting). In the attachment you can find a specification about the
>> sector format. Can this format be emulated with your USB HxC?
>
> Since the HxC is working at the pulse level, yes the HxC can emulate this.
>
>> 4. The SA851has a 50pin interface but in our opinion this should work
>> with the corresponding adaptor - can you confirm that?
>
> Yes no problem. The HxC already replace some 8" disk drive.
>
> Best Regards,
> Jean-François DEL NERO

markus
Posts: 9
Joined: Thu Dec 13, 2012 3:50 pm

Re: Shugart SA851

Post by markus » Thu Dec 13, 2012 8:22 pm

Hello Jeff

Thank you for your reply. I did not receive your email - sorry for that.
>> 1. To create the floppy images we cannot use one of your emulators but
>> we need to attatch the floppy drive to a PC and then use any floppy dump
>> software - correct?
>
> Yes. To do this you can use the hxc software or ImageDisk software.
> But this will only work if the sectors are in the IBM/ISO FM or MFM format.
>
> The other solution is to use an KryoFlux for very special format disk to
> make a pulse-per-pulse copy..
I doesn't look like it is IBM/ISO format so I doubt that it works with a standard PC FDC. I already posted in the Kryoflux forum.
> Regarding the sector format, this one is very similar to the standard FM
> format, but the Index/Data mark look differents (A1FE / A1F8).
> To be tested on a PC : The dump may work if the missing clock are the same
> as the standard : 0xC7
>
> What is the FDC used by your machine ?
The FDC is not a standard one, it is integrated in an old PCB testing equipment from the 70ies manufactured my Membrain/Schlumberger and build up with stanard logic gates. I could provide schematics but I don't think this would help. Most of the low level formating is done by the CPU anyway.

Regards
Markus

Jeff
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Re: Shugart SA851

Post by Jeff » Thu Dec 13, 2012 11:14 pm

THe HxC software is now able to import KryoFlux dump Stream.

markus
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Re: Shugart SA851

Post by markus » Fri Feb 01, 2013 1:07 am

Finally I received the emulators! :)
Can I use the .hfe you posted in the Kryoflux forum to write back from my machine to the SD emulator or should I create a new floppy Image with your software?

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Re: Shugart SA851

Post by Jeff » Fri Feb 01, 2013 8:24 am

markus wrote:Finally I received the emulators! :)
Can I use the .hfe you posted in the Kryoflux forum to write back from my machine to the SD emulator or should I create a new floppy Image with your software?
Hi,

Just use this HFE. (please redownload it, i have updated it yesterday..)

markus
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Re: Shugart SA851

Post by markus » Sun Feb 17, 2013 10:37 pm

Hello Jeff

I just downloaded the HxCFloppyEmulator v2.0.10.1 - thank you for adding the MEMBRAIN format. When I load either a .raw file recorded by Kryoflux or one of the .hfe files you provided me, I can't see any tracks in the track analyzer. What am I doing wrong?

regards
Markus

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Re: Shugart SA851

Post by Jeff » Sun Feb 17, 2013 10:55 pm

markus wrote: What am I doing wrong?

regards
Markus
Nothing, i have just disable it in the track analyser.
I will send to you the dll with this feature activated.

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Re: Shugart SA851

Post by Jeff » Sun Feb 17, 2013 11:03 pm

email sent.

markus
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Re: Shugart SA851

Post by markus » Sun Feb 17, 2013 11:27 pm

got it! and the viewer works with your .hfe files. But when I open the Kryoflux .raw files it still doesn't seem to show the correct data (compared with the hfe). What I changed from the default settings:
Track type: MEMBRAIN MFM
RPM:360
Sector per track: 16

Did I miss something?

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Re: Shugart SA851

Post by Jeff » Sun Feb 17, 2013 11:51 pm

markus wrote:got it! and the viewer works with your .hfe files. But when I open the Kryoflux .raw files it still doesn't seem to show the correct data (compared with the hfe). What I changed from the default settings:
Track type: MEMBRAIN MFM
RPM:360
Sector per track: 16

Did I miss something?
By "raw" do you mean stream file or raw sector data ?

markus
Posts: 9
Joined: Thu Dec 13, 2012 3:50 pm

Re: Shugart SA851

Post by markus » Sun Feb 17, 2013 11:56 pm

the stream file from the kryoflux software I uploaded in their forum

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Re: Shugart SA851

Post by Jeff » Mon Feb 18, 2013 12:07 am

markus wrote:the stream file from the kryoflux software I uploaded in their forum
ok in this case this is different.
you need to convert them :
click on batch converter -> Target File format : AFI-> Choose a target directory (leave the source directory empty.)
Then drag&drop on this window one and only one stream raw file from each disk dump.
The analysis can take some minutes. You can see the progress in the log window

Once you got the AFI, you can convert them into HFE.

But my advice is : pack and send me all your stream files, i will check the conversion and send to you the AFI files.

markus
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Re: Shugart SA851

Post by markus » Mon Feb 18, 2013 12:25 am

now it's looking good!
But my advice is : pack and send me all your stream files, i will check the conversion and send to you the AFI files.
you mean because of possible CRC errors?

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Re: Shugart SA851

Post by Jeff » Mon Feb 18, 2013 12:33 am

markus wrote:now it's looking good!
But my advice is : pack and send me all your stream files, i will check the conversion and send to you the AFI files.
you mean because of possible CRC errors?
Yes and no : because the stream analyzer still in beta version stage.

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