Use of HxC on typical CP/M Machines -- 5.25" 320k

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severed
Posts: 5
Joined: Mon Nov 15, 2010 1:25 pm

Use of HxC on typical CP/M Machines -- 5.25" 320k

Post by severed »

I have been trying to get my HxC to operate in some of my vintage CP/M computers - eg Osborne, Kaypro... these all typically use the same floppy drive hardware -

CP/M General: 5.25", 512byte sectors, 8 sectors per track, 40 tracks- giving 160kB SSSD or 320kB DSDD . SSSD is 82kB

IBM PC is : 5.25", 512byte sectors, 9 sectors per track, 40 tracks- giving 180kB SSSD or 360kB DSDD .


The disk hardware is very interchangeable, and a 360KB DSDD drive that works in an IBM PC will generally work fine in one of these CP/M machine without modifications (save for drive select jumpers and cable twists which are easy to sort out) and vice-versa.

Using Dave Dunfields ImageDisk 1.17 I can create IMD files using a PC with 5.25" DSDD 360kB drive just fine - and write the images back to floppies perfectly - I use double-step - and they work perfectly in the CP/M machines.

I am curious to the settings I need to use in the HxC software -- while the IBM PC selections seem geared towards higher desnsities or 3.5" sizes it seems to allow Shugart standard. I've managed to load IMD files onto the HxC SD card, and when connected to the Kaypro or Osbore Executive it appears to seek however it wont read the images.

If anyone has settings or screen dump showing configuration to allow use at typical 5.25" DSDD/ SSDD / SSSD

Cheers
Grant - Brisbane, Q, Australia

Jeff
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Re: Use of HxC on typical CP/M Machines -- 5.25" 320k

Post by Jeff »

severed wrote:I have been trying to get my HxC to operate in some of my vintage CP/M computers - eg Osborne, Kaypro... these all typically use the same floppy drive hardware -

CP/M General: 5.25", 512byte sectors, 8 sectors per track, 40 tracks- giving 160kB SSSD or 320kB DSDD . SSSD is 82kB

IBM PC is : 5.25", 512byte sectors, 9 sectors per track, 40 tracks- giving 180kB SSSD or 360kB DSDD .


The disk hardware is very interchangeable, and a 360KB DSDD drive that works in an IBM PC will generally work fine in one of these CP/M machine without modifications (save for drive select jumpers and cable twists which are easy to sort out) and vice-versa.

Using Dave Dunfields ImageDisk 1.17 I can create IMD files using a PC with 5.25" DSDD 360kB drive just fine - and write the images back to floppies perfectly - I use double-step - and they work perfectly in the CP/M machines.

I am curious to the settings I need to use in the HxC software -- while the IBM PC selections seem geared towards higher desnsities or 3.5" sizes it seems to allow Shugart standard. I've managed to load IMD files onto the HxC SD card, and when connected to the Kaypro or Osbore Executive it appears to seek however it wont read the images.

If anyone has settings or screen dump showing configuration to allow use at typical 5.25" DSDD/ SSDD / SSSD

Cheers
Grant - Brisbane, Q, Australia
Post some of your osborne file image, i will generate for you some hfe files for test.

severed
Posts: 5
Joined: Mon Nov 15, 2010 1:25 pm

Post by severed »

Thank you Jeff


I have done some work on the Kaypro 4-84 this afternoon - It's the easiest machine to work on and has the easiest disk formats.

I have generated a known-working IMD file of a bootable System Disk.

I first made sure the master copy was 100% OK by making a duplicat eon the Kaypro and verifying each track as it copied. I then tested I could copy the entire disk to a blank in second drive. Once sure that the master copy was 100% OK, I extracted it to an IMD file, and then wrote that IMD back to a blank floppy using IMD. I verified it boots in the Kaypro and can be used to copy it's entire contents to another disk in the Kaypro.

Once I had it verified I placed all the technical details inside the IMD's description fields - these may be useful to you and are duplicated below

The file is inside a ZIP to make it easier to download:

http://www.kaypro.net/diskimages/kaypro ... KAY4D1.zip


Details:

KAYPRO 4-84

5.25" DS DD (Single Step)
Layout: 10 x 512bytes sectors per track. 40 tracks. 2 sides.
10 x 40 x 2 = 800 sectors (800 x 512 = 409,600 bytes/disk

Skew Tables:
0/0: 0 8 3 6 1 9 4 7 2 5
0/1: 10 18 13 16 11 19 14 17 12 15

Data Rate: 250kbps
R/W Gap 1: 7
Format Gap 2: 14


I hope this IMD and the specs above are able to help you create a hfe file that will work!

I think the HxC will be invaluable to collectors of these old CP/M machines and if we have an easy recepie for getting it working it'll benefit the community.

Thanks!
Grant - Brisbane, Q, Australia

Jeff
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Posts: 8093
Joined: Fri Oct 20, 2006 12:12 am
Location: Paris
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Post by Jeff »

severed wrote:Thank you Jeff


I have done some work on the Kaypro 4-84 this afternoon - It's the easiest machine to work on and has the easiest disk formats.

I have generated a known-working IMD file of a bootable System Disk.

I first made sure the master copy was 100% OK by making a duplicat eon the Kaypro and verifying each track as it copied. I then tested I could copy the entire disk to a blank in second drive. Once sure that the master copy was 100% OK, I extracted it to an IMD file, and then wrote that IMD back to a blank floppy using IMD. I verified it boots in the Kaypro and can be used to copy it's entire contents to another disk in the Kaypro.

Once I had it verified I placed all the technical details inside the IMD's description fields - these may be useful to you and are duplicated below

The file is inside a ZIP to make it easier to download:

http://www.kaypro.net/diskimages/kaypro ... KAY4D1.zip


Details:

KAYPRO 4-84

5.25" DS DD (Single Step)
Layout: 10 x 512bytes sectors per track. 40 tracks. 2 sides.
10 x 40 x 2 = 800 sectors (800 x 512 = 409,600 bytes/disk

Skew Tables:
0/0: 0 8 3 6 1 9 4 7 2 5
0/1: 10 18 13 16 11 19 14 17 12 15

Data Rate: 250kbps
R/W Gap 1: 7
Format Gap 2: 14


I hope this IMD and the specs above are able to help you create a hfe file that will work!

I think the HxC will be invaluable to collectors of these old CP/M machines and if we have an easy recepie for getting it working it'll benefit the community.

Thanks!
Grant - Brisbane, Q, Australia
In fact it's problably a gap setting problem in the IMD loader.

Try this :

->Load the IMD file into the software.
->"Export " -> Select IMG type.

->"Load Raw image":
Set the right floppy disk format. Set the GAP3 to 12.
"Load RAW file"-> select the exported img file.

->"Export"-> Select HFE type. -> try this new HFE floppy image on the real hardware....

Jeff
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Location: Paris
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Post by Jeff »


severed
Posts: 5
Joined: Mon Nov 15, 2010 1:25 pm

Post by severed »

Hi Jeff


Thanks for posting beta version. When I load my KAYPRO 4 image I get the following log output:

INFO 0 : Starting HxCFloppyEmulator...
INFO 0 : Starting CPLDFloppyEmulator Hw manager...
INFO 1 : Loading ftd2xx.dll...
ERROR : Error while loading FTDI library! library not found !
INFO 0 : Loading P:\CPM-IMAGES\test-hxc\Kaypro4-84\KAY4D1.IMD
DEBUG : DMS_libIsValidDiskFile P:\CPM-IMAGES\test-hxc\Kaypro4-84\KAY4D1.IMD
DEBUG : non DMS file !
DEBUG : libIsValidDiskFile n0 return -2
DEBUG : ADZ_libIsValidDiskFile P:\CPM-IMAGES\test-hxc\Kaypro4-84\KAY4D1.IMD
DEBUG : non ADZ file !
DEBUG : libIsValidDiskFile n1 return -2
DEBUG : ADF_libIsValidDiskFile P:\CPM-IMAGES\test-hxc\Kaypro4-84\KAY4D1.IMD
DEBUG : non ADF file !
DEBUG : libIsValidDiskFile n2 return -2
DEBUG : CPCDSK_libIsValidDiskFile P:\CPM-IMAGES\test-hxc\Kaypro4-84\KAY4D1.IMD
DEBUG : non CPC Dsk file !
DEBUG : libIsValidDiskFile n3 return -2
DEBUG : STX_libIsValidDiskFile P:\CPM-IMAGES\test-hxc\Kaypro4-84\KAY4D1.IMD
DEBUG : non STX file !
DEBUG : libIsValidDiskFile n4 return -2
DEBUG : STT_libIsValidDiskFile P:\CPM-IMAGES\test-hxc\Kaypro4-84\KAY4D1.IMD
DEBUG : non STT file !
DEBUG : libIsValidDiskFile n5 return -2
DEBUG : CopyQm_libIsValidDiskFile P:\CPM-IMAGES\test-hxc\Kaypro4-84\KAY4D1.IMD
DEBUG : bad header tag !
DEBUG : libIsValidDiskFile n6 return -2
DEBUG : TeleDisk_libIsValidDiskFile P:\CPM-IMAGES\test-hxc\Kaypro4-84\KAY4D1.IMD
DEBUG : bad header tag !
DEBUG : libIsValidDiskFile n7 return -2
DEBUG : MSA_libIsValidDiskFile P:\CPM-IMAGES\test-hxc\Kaypro4-84\KAY4D1.IMD
DEBUG : non MSA file !
DEBUG : libIsValidDiskFile n8 return -2
DEBUG : MFM_libIsValidDiskFile P:\CPM-IMAGES\test-hxc\Kaypro4-84\KAY4D1.IMD
DEBUG : non MFM file !
DEBUG : libIsValidDiskFile n9 return -2
DEBUG : OricDSK_libIsValidDiskFile P:\CPM-IMAGES\test-hxc\Kaypro4-84\KAY4D1.IMD
DEBUG : non OricDSK file !
DEBUG : libIsValidDiskFile n10 return -2
DEBUG : ST_libIsValidDiskFile P:\CPM-IMAGES\test-hxc\Kaypro4-84\KAY4D1.IMD
DEBUG : non ST file !
DEBUG : libIsValidDiskFile n11 return -2
DEBUG : IPF_libIsValidDiskFile P:\CPM-IMAGES\test-hxc\Kaypro4-84\KAY4D1.IMD
DEBUG : non IPF file !
DEBUG : libIsValidDiskFile n12 return -2
DEBUG : AMIGADOSFSDK_libIsValidDiskFile P:\CPM-IMAGES\test-hxc\Kaypro4-84\KAY4D1.IMD
DEBUG : non AMIGADOSFSDK file ! (it's not a directory)
DEBUG : libIsValidDiskFile n13 return -2
DEBUG : Ensoniq_mirage_libIsValidDiskFile P:\CPM-IMAGES\test-hxc\Kaypro4-84\KAY4D1.IMD
DEBUG : non Prophet file !
DEBUG : libIsValidDiskFile n14 return -2
DEBUG : IMG_libIsValidDiskFile P:\CPM-IMAGES\test-hxc\Kaypro4-84\KAY4D1.IMD
DEBUG : non IMG file !
DEBUG : libIsValidDiskFile n15 return -2
DEBUG : MSX_libIsValidDiskFile P:\CPM-IMAGES\test-hxc\Kaypro4-84\KAY4D1.IMD
DEBUG : non MSX IMG file !
DEBUG : libIsValidDiskFile n16 return -2
DEBUG : FAT12FLOPPY_libIsValidDiskFile P:\CPM-IMAGES\test-hxc\Kaypro4-84\KAY4D1.IMD
DEBUG : non FAT12FLOPPY file ! (it's not a directory)
DEBUG : libIsValidDiskFile n17 return -2
DEBUG : HFE_libIsValidDiskFile P:\CPM-IMAGES\test-hxc\Kaypro4-84\KAY4D1.IMD
DEBUG : non HFE file !
DEBUG : libIsValidDiskFile n18 return -2
DEBUG : VTR_libIsValidDiskFile P:\CPM-IMAGES\test-hxc\Kaypro4-84\KAY4D1.IMD
DEBUG : non VTrucco file !
DEBUG : libIsValidDiskFile n19 return -2
DEBUG : IMD_libIsValidDiskFile P:\CPM-IMAGES\test-hxc\Kaypro4-84\KAY4D1.IMD
DEBUG : non IMD file !
DEBUG : libIsValidDiskFile n20 return -2
DEBUG : AFI_libIsValidDiskFile P:\CPM-IMAGES\test-hxc\Kaypro4-84\KAY4D1.IMD
DEBUG : non AFI file !
DEBUG : libIsValidDiskFile n21 return -2
DEBUG : D64_libIsValidDiskFile P:\CPM-IMAGES\test-hxc\Kaypro4-84\KAY4D1.IMD
DEBUG : non D64 file !
DEBUG : libIsValidDiskFile n22 return -2
DEBUG : TRD_libIsValidDiskFile P:\CPM-IMAGES\test-hxc\Kaypro4-84\KAY4D1.IMD
DEBUG : non TRD file !
DEBUG : libIsValidDiskFile n23 return -2
DEBUG : SCL_libIsValidDiskFile P:\CPM-IMAGES\test-hxc\Kaypro4-84\KAY4D1.IMD
DEBUG : non Sinclair SCL file !
DEBUG : libIsValidDiskFile n24 return -2
DEBUG : SAP_libIsValidDiskFile P:\CPM-IMAGES\test-hxc\Kaypro4-84\KAY4D1.IMD
DEBUG : non SAP file !
DEBUG : libIsValidDiskFile n25 return -2
DEBUG : JV1_libIsValidDiskFile P:\CPM-IMAGES\test-hxc\Kaypro4-84\KAY4D1.IMD
DEBUG : non JV1 file !
DEBUG : libIsValidDiskFile n26 return -2
DEBUG : JV3_libIsValidDiskFile P:\CPM-IMAGES\test-hxc\Kaypro4-84\KAY4D1.IMD
DEBUG : non JV3 file !
DEBUG : libIsValidDiskFile n27 return -2
DEBUG : D88_libIsValidDiskFile P:\CPM-IMAGES\test-hxc\Kaypro4-84\KAY4D1.IMD
DEBUG : libIsValidDiskFile n28 return -4
DEBUG : HDM_libIsValidDiskFile P:\CPM-IMAGES\test-hxc\Kaypro4-84\KAY4D1.IMD
DEBUG : non HDM file !
DEBUG : libIsValidDiskFile n29 return -2
DEBUG : snes_smc_libIsValidDiskFile P:\CPM-IMAGES\test-hxc\Kaypro4-84\KAY4D1.IMD
INFO 1 : unknow file type !
DEBUG : non SMC/SMD file !
DEBUG : libIsValidDiskFile n30 return -2
DEBUG : TI99PC99_libIsValidDiskFile P:\CPM-IMAGES\test-hxc\Kaypro4-84\KAY4D1.IMD
DEBUG : non TI99 PC99 file !
DEBUG : libIsValidDiskFile n31 return -2
DEBUG : ApriDisk_libIsValidDiskFile P:\CPM-IMAGES\test-hxc\Kaypro4-84\KAY4D1.IMD
DEBUG : ApriDisk file !
DEBUG : libIsValidDiskFile n32 return -2
DEBUG : EDE_libIsValidDiskFile P:\CPM-IMAGES\test-hxc\Kaypro4-84\KAY4D1.IMD
DEBUG : non EDE file !
DEBUG : libIsValidDiskFile n33 return -2
DEBUG : fd_libIsValidDiskFile P:\CPM-IMAGES\test-hxc\Kaypro4-84\KAY4D1.IMD
DEBUG : non TO8D FD file !
DEBUG : libIsValidDiskFile n34 return -2
DEBUG : VDK_libIsValidDiskFile P:\CPM-IMAGES\test-hxc\Kaypro4-84\KAY4D1.IMD
DEBUG : non VDK file !
DEBUG : libIsValidDiskFile n35 return -2
DEBUG : DPX_libIsValidDiskFile P:\CPM-IMAGES\test-hxc\Kaypro4-84\KAY4D1.IMD
DEBUG : non DPX file !
DEBUG : libIsValidDiskFile n36 return -2
DEBUG : Ensoniq_mirage_libIsValidDiskFile P:\CPM-IMAGES\test-hxc\Kaypro4-84\KAY4D1.IMD
DEBUG : non Ensoniq mirage file !
DEBUG : libIsValidDiskFile n37 return -2
DEBUG : EMAX_libIsValidDiskFile P:\CPM-IMAGES\test-hxc\Kaypro4-84\KAY4D1.IMD
DEBUG : non Emax file !
DEBUG : libIsValidDiskFile n38 return -2
DEBUG : MGT_libIsValidDiskFile P:\CPM-IMAGES\test-hxc\Kaypro4-84\KAY4D1.IMD
DEBUG : non MGT file !
DEBUG : libIsValidDiskFile n39 return -2
DEBUG : SAD_libIsValidDiskFile P:\CPM-IMAGES\test-hxc\Kaypro4-84\KAY4D1.IMD
DEBUG : non SAD file !
DEBUG : libIsValidDiskFile n40 return -2
DEBUG : MFM_libIsValidDiskFile P:\CPM-IMAGES\test-hxc\Kaypro4-84\KAY4D1.IMD
DEBUG : non EmuII raw file !
DEBUG : libIsValidDiskFile n41 return -2
DEBUG : EMAX_libIsValidDiskFile P:\CPM-IMAGES\test-hxc\Kaypro4-84\KAY4D1.IMD
DEBUG : non EMUII file !
DEBUG : libIsValidDiskFile n42 return -2
DEBUG : EMUI_RAW_libIsValidDiskFile P:\CPM-IMAGES\test-hxc\Kaypro4-84\KAY4D1.IMD
DEBUG : non EmuI raw file !
DEBUG : libIsValidDiskFile n43 return -2
ERROR : no loader support the file P:\CPM-IMAGES\test-hxc\Kaypro4-84\KAY4D1.IMD !

The resultant error in the 1.5.0.1b status line is "Loader error! Image file not supported"

I tried on two machines with same result - WXP and W7

Jeff
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Posts: 8093
Joined: Fri Oct 20, 2006 12:12 am
Location: Paris
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Post by Jeff »

severed wrote:Hi Jeff


Thanks for posting beta version. When I load my KAYPRO 4 image I get the following log output:

...
...

The resultant error in the 1.5.0.1b status line is "Loader error! Image file not supported"

I tried on two machines with same result - WXP and W7

mhhh this is not an IMD file (no IMD file header....)
how did you create it ?


EDIT : try this one :
https://hxc2001.com/floppy_drive_emulat ... KAY4D1.IMD

severed
Posts: 5
Joined: Mon Nov 15, 2010 1:25 pm

Post by severed »

That looks better Jeff!!!

You know -- the header "IMD 1.17: 14/10/2010 22:53:46" is missing because I use IMDU with the Header Update option!!!

I said "Once I had it verified I placed all the technical details inside the IMD's description fields"

I though this just updated the "comments" section - didn't realise it stripped out the important header too!!

OK - now I have an HFE file - I am going to test this out this evening on the Kaypro :)

One question - wasn't sure what to set SECTOR ID START to - I left it at 1 - if I have trouble I'll set it to 0


Thanks,
Grant

Jeff
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Joined: Fri Oct 20, 2006 12:12 am
Location: Paris
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Post by Jeff »

severed wrote: One question - wasn't sure what to set SECTOR ID START to - I left it at 1 - if I have trouble I'll set it to 0
If you use directly the IMD file to create the HFE file you don't need to use the "Load RAW file" function ;-)

severed
Posts: 5
Joined: Mon Nov 15, 2010 1:25 pm

Post by severed »

Jeff - you are right!

I just then used the batch convert and converted 9 KAYPRO disk images directly to the CF card - inserted it into the HxC and it booted the Kaypro!!!

I did make some changes to the CFG file to set it to Shugart, not sure if that helped or was ignored.

I am really impressed! I have just tested it with a few disks and it reads them perfecly! It even writes perfectly too! Even with it emulating two disks and writing between them it's fine too.

I will attempt to tackle the Osborne (SSDD, 5 X 1024) and the Access Matrix (DSDD\SSDD 9 X 512) this weekend!

I will document all my settings and make a blog post and be sure to refer people to the device. This will be soemthing very highly soght after in the CP/M collecting community!

Thanks for your time Jeff,
Regards

Grant - Brisbane, Q, Australia

mau_rizio
Posts: 69
Joined: Tue May 05, 2009 5:08 pm

Post by mau_rizio »

severed wrote:Jeff - you are right!

I just then used the batch convert and converted 9 KAYPRO disk images directly to the CF card - inserted it into the HxC and it booted the Kaypro!!!

I did make some changes to the CFG file to set it to Shugart, not sure if that helped or was ignored.

I am really impressed! I have just tested it with a few disks and it reads them perfecly! It even writes perfectly too! Even with it emulating two disks and writing between them it's fine too.

I will attempt to tackle the Osborne (SSDD, 5 X 1024) and the Access Matrix (DSDD\SSDD 9 X 512) this weekend!

I will document all my settings and make a blog post and be sure to refer people to the device. This will be soemthing very highly soght after in the CP/M collecting community!

Thanks for your time Jeff,
Regards

Grant - Brisbane, Q, Australia
Please keep us informed about your progess.

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