Oric floppy images support

HxC Floppy emulator support for all others computers...
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Godzil
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Oric floppy images support

Post by Godzil » Fri Jun 24, 2011 3:31 pm

Hi,

I just got a SD HxC and I have a few questions about it, maybe some may sound silly, but I can't find an answer in the documentation:

- Does the SD HxC only read HFE File? It seems to contradict the documentation, that says it "convert on the fly" a lot of floppy format, like the Oric DSK one.

- Since the Oric DSK format is sayed to be supported, at least the windows tool should not crash when I try to load it! (yes this is a bug report ;)) I didn't have the time to check the source code (nor debugging, the VC++ (Express 2011) version I have does not want to open the project), but it seems that something is not working here, maybe, it only support the "OLD" Oric DSK format, and not the MFM (the images I have are in the "MFM" format)

Maybe the problem is the same for the SD HxC, it doesn't recognise the file format and failed to open it, do the "!Bad File!" message.

I'll be happy to help on this subject.

Jeff
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Re: Oric floppy images support

Post by Jeff » Fri Jun 24, 2011 4:14 pm

Godzil wrote:Hi,

I just got a SD HxC and I have a few questions about it, maybe some may sound silly, but I can't find an answer in the documentation:

- Does the SD HxC only read HFE File? It seems to contradict the documentation, that says it "convert on the fly" a lot of floppy format, like the Oric DSK one.
Where did you see "convert on the fly" ?
Of course it supports only HFE format.
Godzil wrote: - Since the Oric DSK format is sayed to be supported, at least the windows tool should not crash when I try to load it! (yes this is a bug report ;)) I didn't have the time to check the source code (nor debugging, the VC++ (Express 2011) version I have does not want to open the project), but it seems that something is not working here, maybe, it only support the "OLD" Oric DSK format, and not the MFM (the images I have are in the "MFM" format)
Post the image file here i will have a look.
Godzil wrote: Maybe the problem is the same for the SD HxC, it doesn't recognise the file format and failed to open it, do the "!Bad File!" message.
The SD HxC only eat HFE files, nothing else.

Godzil
Posts: 15
Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2011 11:24 am

Re: Oric floppy images support

Post by Godzil » Fri Jun 24, 2011 6:14 pm

Jeff wrote:
Godzil wrote:Hi,

I just got a SD HxC and I have a few questions about it, maybe some may sound silly, but I can't find an answer in the documentation:

- Does the SD HxC only read HFE File? It seems to contradict the documentation, that says it "convert on the fly" a lot of floppy format, like the Oric DSK one.
Where did you see "convert on the fly" ?
Of course it supports only HFE format.
Ok, I may mix the USB and SD description. But there is at least one misleading sentence:
>Very fast floppy image loading (<100ms), no conversion time.
Jeff wrote:
Godzil wrote: - Since the Oric DSK format is sayed to be supported, at least the windows tool should not crash when I try to load it! (yes this is a bug report ;)) I didn't have the time to check the source code (nor debugging, the VC++ (Express 2011) version I have does not want to open the project), but it seems that something is not working here, maybe, it only support the "OLD" Oric DSK format, and not the MFM (the images I have are in the "MFM" format)
Post the image file here i will have a look.
Ok I joined the FT-DOS and Sedoric images I have that crash the latest version of the windows HxC tool.
(they work correctly on Oric emulators)
Attachments
Sedoric_V3.006_F.dsk.bz2
Sedoric boot disk
(153.2 KiB) Downloaded 391 times
FT-DOS.dsk.bz2
Jasmin boot disc
(41.87 KiB) Downloaded 395 times

Jeff
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Re: Oric floppy images support

Post by Jeff » Fri Jun 24, 2011 6:23 pm

>Very fast floppy image loading (<100ms), no conversion time.
Where is the mistake here ? There no conversion time when you choose an file image on the HxC Floppy Emulator since this is not needed unlike others floppy emulator (~20 seconds to wait once the file is selected...)

Godzil
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Re: Oric floppy images support

Post by Godzil » Fri Jun 24, 2011 6:42 pm

Jeff wrote:
>Very fast floppy image loading (<100ms), no conversion time.
Where is the mistake here ? There no conversion time when you choose an file image on the HxC Floppy Emulator since this is not needed unlike others floppy emulator (~20 seconds to wait once the file is selected...)
Yup, but you can understand that you don't need to convert the file (aka DSK to HFE for exemple)

But don't worry, I understand now, HFE only ;)

Jeff
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Re: Oric floppy images support

Post by Jeff » Fri Jun 24, 2011 11:53 pm


Godzil
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Re: Oric floppy images support

Post by Godzil » Sat Jun 25, 2011 9:47 am

Thanks it works!

Godzil
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Re: Oric floppy images support

Post by Godzil » Mon Jun 27, 2011 9:31 am

Hello Jeff, I have a more general question around the HxC and Oric, maybe it's a bug in the mirodisk, or the HxC, I don't know, but the HxC doesn't exactly behave like a floppy drive (I saw on saturday peoples from the CEO during their Visu, and they seems to have the same problem as me)

[ignore]
It look like the "Disk Ready" signal does not behave exactly like a floppy drive during powerup, or at least, not as the Oric Microdisk expect: if we use "autoload" (autoboot.hfe) or "auto load last disk" during powerup, the microdisk doesn't see that there is a media inserted, and still wait for an inserted floppy (where it work correctly using a real floppy drive)

It is possible that there is a difference in the pin 34 management during powerup ?
[/ignore]

Edit: The microdisk schematic is barely readable, but the pin 34 seems to be N/C, so the problem can not come from here, but there is clearly a problem somewhere.

If I use a real floppy, it try to boot if it is already inserted during powerup, using the HxC with auto "floppy" load, it will not work, waiting for me to insert a floppy...

Jeff
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Re: Oric floppy images support

Post by Jeff » Mon Jun 27, 2011 11:16 am

Godzil wrote:...but there is clearly a problem somewhere...
Yes but where ? Only you can answer to this. (i don't have any Oric...).
Are there a disk change line ?

You can also try to change the interface mode.

Godzil
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Re: Oric floppy images support

Post by Godzil » Mon Jun 27, 2011 11:28 am

Jeff wrote:
Godzil wrote:...but there is clearly a problem somewhere...
Yes but where ? Only you can answer to this. (i don't have any Oric...).
Are there a disk change line ?

You can also try to change the interface mode.
I will check all of these parts, the pin34 is NC, so it does not use the DiskChange/DiskReady, I'm currently unsure how the Microdisk check if the drive is ready and have a floppy inserted. Maybe it's just due to a misconception of the controler.

I will use my logic analyser to see the difference between a real drive and the HxC during powerup.

I'll keep you informed about this.

Jeff
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Re: Oric floppy images support

Post by Jeff » Mon Jun 27, 2011 11:52 am

Godzil wrote:
Jeff wrote:
Godzil wrote:...but there is clearly a problem somewhere...
Yes but where ? Only you can answer to this. (i don't have any Oric...).
Are there a disk change line ?

You can also try to change the interface mode.
I will check all of these parts, the pin34 is NC, so it does not use the DiskChange/DiskReady, I'm currently unsure how the Microdisk check if the drive is ready and have a floppy inserted. Maybe it's just due to a misconception of the controler.

I will use my logic analyser to see the difference between a real drive and the HxC during powerup.

I'll keep you informed about this.
No i asked for the Pin 2 !

If it is also NC , try the Atari ST interface mode.

Godzil
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Re: Oric floppy images support

Post by Godzil » Mon Jun 27, 2011 12:36 pm

Jeff wrote: No i asked for the Pin 2 !

If it is also NC , try the Atari ST interface mode.
Ho ok, I miss this pin.

No it's seems that it's not connected (the microdisk schematics is really hard to decipher due to the scan)

The only pins thats seems to be connected are:

Code: Select all

30 /RDATA            28 /WPT
8  /INDEX            22 /WDATA
18 /DIR              24 /WGATE
20 /STEP             16 /MTRON
32 /SIDE1            10 /DS0
12 /DS1              14 /DS2
6   /DS3 (seems to contradict standard floppy pinout BTW, May be a "4" is written but it looks more like a "6")
and all GND (1 -> 33)

(cf http://oric.free.fr/IMAGES/microdisc-2.gif on the right side)

I will check with the Atari-ST mode if it change something.

Thanks

Edit: I don't have time to go further, but I made some little test tonight:

I try Atari-ST[HD] mode without luck, it does not correct the problem. But I found something: after changing the SD configuration file, it loose the "last opened file", and if the HxC start without a disk loaded and I "insert" a media the Microdisk will not "accept" it, I have to eject, then reinsert it to allow it to recognize the "disk".
Looks like something strange happen here. I will check the Microdisk internals to see how it check if a floppy is inserted or not.

BTW: Can you explain what each mode changes on the SD HxC comportment ?

Thanks

Jeff
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Re: Oric floppy images support

Post by Jeff » Wed Jun 29, 2011 9:45 am

Godzil wrote: Edit: I don't have time to go further, but I made some little test tonight:

I try Atari-ST[HD] mode without luck, it does not correct the problem. But I found something: after changing the SD configuration file, it loose the "last opened file", and if the HxC start without a disk loaded and I "insert" a media the Microdisk will not "accept" it, I have to eject, then reinsert it to allow it to recognize the "disk".
Looks like something strange happen here. I will check the Microdisk internals to see how it check if a floppy is inserted or not.

BTW: Can you explain what each mode changes on the SD HxC comportment ?

Thanks
En fait c'est peut être un problème lié a un état d'une ligne disk change et/ou ready. Mais cela ne colle pas avec le schéma présenté ici. Pouvez vous vérifier que les signaux pin 2 et 34 ne sont vraiment pas utilisé ?

Godzil
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Re: Oric floppy images support

Post by Godzil » Wed Jun 29, 2011 10:40 am

Jeff wrote:
Godzil wrote: Edit: I don't have time to go further, but I made some little test tonight:

I try Atari-ST[HD] mode without luck, it does not correct the problem. But I found something: after changing the SD configuration file, it loose the "last opened file", and if the HxC start without a disk loaded and I "insert" a media the Microdisk will not "accept" it, I have to eject, then reinsert it to allow it to recognize the "disk".
Looks like something strange happen here. I will check the Microdisk internals to see how it check if a floppy is inserted or not.

BTW: Can you explain what each mode changes on the SD HxC comportment ?

Thanks
En fait c'est peut être un problème lié a un état d'une ligne disk change et/ou ready. Mais cela ne colle pas avec le schéma présenté ici. Pouvez vous vérifier que les signaux pin 2 et 34 ne sont vraiment pas utilisé ?
Je regarde ça, je me met en contact avec des gens qui connaissent bien le controlleur pour checker comment le test est fait

(hum j'ai aussi switché sur le francais, sans meme m'en rendre compte :D)

Nightbird72
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Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2011 6:24 pm

Re: Oric floppy images support

Post by Nightbird72 » Sun Jul 10, 2011 12:26 pm

Hello,
thank you for HxC floppy emulator 8)

When RESET Oric Microdisc controler, the front floppy LED lights, motor is on, and it reads the floppy already loaded or waits for a floppy. So very simple behavior? I confirm pin 2 and 34 are not connected.

The behavior of HxC/Microdisc controler is the following:

1.1)
HxC 'Choose a file'
RESET controler
<, >, ..., ^ (= no load) ???
^ 'Choose a file'
^ loads the file !!!

RESET controler (= reload the file, ok).

1.2)
HxC 'Choose a file'
RESET controler
<, >, ..., ^ (= no load) ???
< loads the previous file (> loads the next file) !

2) (after loading file)
> RESET (load next file, ok) or < RESET (load previous file, ok).

Hope that help to understand the behavior.

Remark: set the jumper like PC config if you want to mix real drives and HxC (ie HxC drive A and real floppy drive B).

Oricordialement,

Thierry

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