HxC SD floppy emulator works with X68000 CompactXVI

HxC Floppy emulator support for all others computers...
caius
Posts: 75
Joined: Sun Jan 30, 2011 12:22 am

Re: HxC SD floppy emulator works with X68000 CompactXVI

Post by caius » Fri Nov 21, 2014 10:04 am

Jeff wrote:
caius wrote:
Jeff wrote:

Not really since i already have done this at the beginning of the project. The difference is that Lotharek is now able to produce such board.

This was in 2007:
http://torlus.com/floppy/index.php?2007 ... ne-version
:wink:
Sorry, but is this standalone version the SD version we already know.WHich is the news regarding X68000 emulation?

Jeff
Site Admin
Posts: 6463
Joined: Fri Oct 20, 2006 12:12 am
Location: Paris
Contact:

Re: HxC SD floppy emulator works with X68000 CompactXVI

Post by Jeff » Fri Nov 21, 2014 10:10 am

caius wrote: Sorry, but is this standalone version the SD version we already know.WHich is the news regarding X68000 emulation?
No. Have a look to the picture more carefully, there is no point with the actual version of the HxC. This is an FPGA version.

caius
Posts: 75
Joined: Sun Jan 30, 2011 12:22 am

Re: HxC SD floppy emulator works with X68000 CompactXVI

Post by caius » Fri Nov 21, 2014 10:48 am

Jeff wrote:
caius wrote: Sorry, but is this standalone version the SD version we already know.WHich is the news regarding X68000 emulation?
No. Have a look to the picture more carefully, there is no point with the actual version of the HxC. This is an FPGA version.
Ah, yes, pardon, now I can see the FPGA solution.When do you think it wil be released?X68000 FD emulation will be implemented as well?

P.P.
In my CompactXVI I adopted the kitahei88 solution and it works quite well.

Jeff
Site Admin
Posts: 6463
Joined: Fri Oct 20, 2006 12:12 am
Location: Paris
Contact:

Re: HxC SD floppy emulator works with X68000 CompactXVI

Post by Jeff » Fri Nov 21, 2014 1:18 pm

caius wrote:
Jeff wrote:
caius wrote: Sorry, but is this standalone version the SD version we already know.WHich is the news regarding X68000 emulation?
No. Have a look to the picture more carefully, there is no point with the actual version of the HxC. This is an FPGA version.
Ah, yes, pardon, now I can see the FPGA solution.When do you think it wil be released?X68000 FD emulation will be implemented as well?
march 2015 i think. And yes the X68000 support will be implemented.
caius wrote: P.P.
In my CompactXVI I adopted the kitahei88 solution and it works quite well.
Which is ?

caius
Posts: 75
Joined: Sun Jan 30, 2011 12:22 am

Re: HxC SD floppy emulator works with X68000 CompactXVI

Post by caius » Fri Nov 21, 2014 4:39 pm

Jeff wrote:
march 2015 i think. And yes the X68000 support will be implemented.
Ah, wonderful, can't wait to try it! :)
caius wrote:
P.P.
In my CompactXVI I adopted the kitahei88 solution and it works quite well.
Jeff wrote:

Which is ?
Jeff, I answered you here:

http://torlus.com/floppy/forum/viewtopi ... 489#p10489

Jeff
Site Admin
Posts: 6463
Joined: Fri Oct 20, 2006 12:12 am
Location: Paris
Contact:

Re: HxC SD floppy emulator works with X68000 CompactXVI

Post by Jeff » Sun Oct 18, 2015 11:04 am

One question to the X68000 users :

Is all software/games 100% compatible/able to work on externals drives, or is there some of them "hardcoded" to work only with the internals drives ?

caius
Posts: 75
Joined: Sun Jan 30, 2011 12:22 am

Re: HxC SD floppy emulator works with X68000 CompactXVI

Post by caius » Sun Oct 18, 2015 11:18 am

Jeff wrote:One question to the X68000 users :

Is all software/games 100% compatible/able to work on externals drives, or is there some of them "hardcoded" to work only with the internals drives ?
Hi Jeff.If external floppy drives are set as '0-1', I'd say there are no problems.If they are set as '2-3' I think some of them will not work since game code will requires them set as '0-1'.Besides, as far as I know, external drives set as -2-3' cannot make boot. Are you working on a X68000 solution?I remember you told me about a new HxC floppy emulator FPGA based with full X68000 support.

P.S.
This is an external floppy drives for CompactVXI model, as you can see it has on the back a switch to set drives as '0-1' or '2-3':

Image

Jeff
Site Admin
Posts: 6463
Joined: Fri Oct 20, 2006 12:12 am
Location: Paris
Contact:

Re: HxC SD floppy emulator works with X68000 CompactXVI

Post by Jeff » Sun Oct 18, 2015 12:50 pm

caius wrote: Hi Jeff.If external floppy drives are set as '0-1', I'd say there are no problems.If they are set as '2-3' I think some of them will not work since game code will requires them set as '0-1'.Besides, as far as I know, external drives set as -2-3' cannot make boot.
caius wrote: P.S.
This is an external floppy drives for CompactVXI model, as you can see it has on the back a switch to set drives as '0-1' or '2-3':
Ok. All X68000 have these switches ? These switches also change the internal drives settings ?
caius wrote: Are you working on a X68000 solution?I remember you told me about a new HxC floppy emulator FPGA based with full X68000 support.
Yes. About the FPGA, i am afraid that the final price tag will be far to high for this... For the moment it's 150/200euros the emulator. We have to face it : this is not reasonable for the retro-computing/gaming market. Sure I am still working on the next generation HxC Floppy Emulator, but for sure its target will be more professionals and industrials users due to its price.
The actual retro-gaming price tag for a floppy emulator is between 30-50Euros, so this rule out any specific design based on FPGA.
So i think that the small and simple external floppy adaptor board for 10/20 euros with some glue logic and/or a low cost/tech MCU to mimic these signals is a far better idea. And this will allows anyone to use any HxC / Gotek / Floppy emulator / PC Floppy disk drive on the X68000.

caius
Posts: 75
Joined: Sun Jan 30, 2011 12:22 am

Re: HxC SD floppy emulator works with X68000 CompactXVI

Post by caius » Sun Oct 18, 2015 2:12 pm

Jeff wrote:
Ok. All X68000 have these switches ? These switches also change the internal drives settings ?
No, only the Compact model have this switch.Infact if you will look at the pinout of X68000 Compact internal FDD you will find a "EXCHANGE" signal which I believe it must be asserted to set internal drives as '2-3' and external ones as '0-1':


http://www.geocities.co.jp/SiliconValle ... c_fdd.html

This is external pinout of all X68000 machines:

http://www.gamesx.com/wiki/doku.php?id= ... ppy_pinout

I'm pretty sure X68000 can't boot from external FDDs set as '2-3'


Yes. About the FPGA, i am afraid that the final price tag will be far to high for this... For the moment it's 150/200euros the emulator. We have to face it : this is not reasonable for the retro-computing/gaming market. Sure I am still working on the next generation HxC Floppy Emulator, but for sure its target will be more professionals and industrials users due to its price.
The actual retro-gaming price tag for a floppy emulator is between 30-50Euros, so this rule out any specific design based on FPGA.
So i think that the small and simple external floppy adaptor board for 10/20 euros with some glue logic and/or a low cost/tech MCU to mimic these signals is a far better idea. And this will allows anyone to use any HxC / Gotek / Floppy emulator / PC Floppy disk drive on the X68000.


You are the engineer/developer so it's up to you to choose the market targeting.A simple external board will be fine but, as I told, we have to verify it X68000 can use external FDDs to boot from.I remember that when I used external FFDs on my X6800 machines I had to use a software that install some driver on SRAM to allow booting.Anyway, if you need testing, I'm here at your disposal.
I suggest you to jon us on NFG forum, there a lot if expert people there.

Jeff
Site Admin
Posts: 6463
Joined: Fri Oct 20, 2006 12:12 am
Location: Paris
Contact:

Re: HxC SD floppy emulator works with X68000 CompactXVI

Post by Jeff » Sun Oct 18, 2015 2:43 pm

caius wrote: You are the engineer/developer so it's up to you to choose the market targeting.
Unfortunately i didn't choose anything... The only "market"/users have the last word.
There is already many quite expensive FPGA based (or not) since years, but they have all fail into the "old computing" market for many reasons, but the first one is the price.
Have a look the HxC Floppy Emulator blog : http://torlus.com/floppy/ ( 05/04/2007 )
The first versions was based on FPGA. I have to change this to a MCU solution cause of the price. But for sure FPGA solutions are technically far better than any MCU / software solutions.

And anyway, no, generally the engineer/developer don't choose the market. Someone tell him which price this should cost ;)
And most of time this is the "lowest price solution possible".
caius wrote: A simple external board will be fine but, as I told, we have to verify it X68000 can use external FDDs to boot from.I remember that when I used external FFDs on my X6800 machines I had to use a software that install some driver on SRAM to allow booting.Anyway, if you need testing, I'm here at your disposal.
I suggest you to jon us on NFG forum, there a lot if expert people there.
Ok. So for sure the pcb will be as small as possible to allow internal use too.

caius
Posts: 75
Joined: Sun Jan 30, 2011 12:22 am

Re: HxC SD floppy emulator works with X68000 CompactXVI

Post by caius » Sun Oct 18, 2015 3:11 pm

Jeff wrote:
Unfortunately i didn't choose anything... The only "market"/users have the last word.
There is already many quite expensive FPGA based (or not) since years, but they have all fail into the "old computing" market for many reasons, but the first one is the price.
Have a look the HxC Floppy Emulator blog : http://torlus.com/floppy/ ( 05/04/2007 )
The first versions was based on FPGA. I have to change this to a MCU solution cause of the price. But for sure FPGA solutions are technically far better than any MCU / software solutions.

And anyway, no, generally the engineer/developer don't choose the market. Someone tell him which price this should cost ;)
And most of time this is the "lowest price solution possible".
That's good, each team member has his task so the engineer has more time to work on the hardware (which this is the important thing.Marketing, advertising, etc are secondary..)

Ok. So for sure the pcb will be as small as possible to allow internal use too.
OK,I forgot to say that internal and external FDD connector signals are shared, pins are in continuity (maybe except for the PRO model which use FDDs with a small connector apart for the proprietary signals)

Jeff
Site Admin
Posts: 6463
Joined: Fri Oct 20, 2006 12:12 am
Location: Paris
Contact:

Re: HxC SD floppy emulator works with X68000 CompactXVI

Post by Jeff » Sun Oct 25, 2015 11:58 pm

First schematic version of the PC Drive / Floppy Emulator adapter for the X68000 :
X68000_PCDRIVE_ADAPTER_small.jpg
X68000_PCDRIVE_ADAPTER_small.jpg (134.75 KiB) Viewed 5572 times

caius
Posts: 75
Joined: Sun Jan 30, 2011 12:22 am

Re: HxC SD floppy emulator works with X68000 CompactXVI

Post by caius » Mon Oct 26, 2015 12:19 am

Jeff wrote:First schematic version of the PC Drive / Floppy Emulator adapter for the X68000 :
X68000_PCDRIVE_ADAPTER_small.jpg
Good job, my dear engineer.
So, this adapter is going to work both with a real PC FDD and HxC emulator?
Have you done only software simulation or tested the circuit on real hardware?
Is the PIC code available?I'd want to try the circuit and report feedback.

Jeff
Site Admin
Posts: 6463
Joined: Fri Oct 20, 2006 12:12 am
Location: Paris
Contact:

Re: HxC SD floppy emulator works with X68000 CompactXVI

Post by Jeff » Mon Oct 26, 2015 12:52 am

caius wrote:So, this adapter is going to work both with a real PC FDD and HxC emulator?
Yes that's the idea.
caius wrote: Have you done only software simulation or tested the circuit on real hardware?
Is the PIC code available?I'd want to try the circuit and report feedback.
I am writing the software, so schematic change still possible ;)

caius
Posts: 75
Joined: Sun Jan 30, 2011 12:22 am

Re: HxC SD floppy emulator works with X68000 CompactXVI

Post by caius » Mon Oct 26, 2015 1:00 am

Jeff wrote:

Yes that's the idea.


OK.I see you emulated all the extra X68000 signal and not only the most important (INT and DISK IN).Like other solutions also the yours will requires to activate a switch to notify the insertion/eject of a disk/disk image.
I am writing the software, so schematic change still possible ;)
OK, Jeff, I wish you a good work and keep us updated.I'm always here if you need deep testing.

Post Reply