HxC Slim on (Kon)Tiki 100

HxC Floppy emulator support for all others computers...
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Quarryman
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HxC Slim on (Kon)Tiki 100

Post by Quarryman » Fri Jan 10, 2014 12:00 am

So, the Tiki 100, also known as the Kontiki 100 was a Norwegian made CP/M compatible computer, and now I want to connect an HxC Slim to mine, something that as expected didn't work out of the box.

I'm not sure what information is needed to get the HxC emulator to work with this computer, so I definitely understand that getting this to work might take a while, especially since I expect I'll need to update the firmware on my emulator a few times to test things.

The floppy drive currently in the computer is a Teac FD-55A, I also have a Teac FD-55BV that seems to work fine in it as well.

Example disk images:
http://djupdal.org/asbjoern/tiki/progra ... kpm117.zip
http://djupdal.org/asbjoern/tiki/progra ... vaders.zip

According to the webpage those disk images were made with Anadisk, not sure if this is relevant, but I figure more information is better than less.

Unfortunately the available technical documentation for the computer is only in Norwegian, so you'll probably need to use Google Translate a bit, docs can be found at http://djupdal.org/asbjoern/tiki/tekniskedok/

The various floppy formats the tiki supports are explained at http://djupdal.org/asbjoern/tiki/teknis ... rmater.txt
Quick translation:
Kapasitet: capacity
Ant. spor pr. side: tracks per side
Sekt. pr. spor: sectors per track
Sekt. lengde: sector length
Blokkstørrelse: block size
Sys. sylindere: system(?) cylinders
Fysisk "skew": physical "skew"
Kataloginnganger: directory entries(?)

ED = Enkel datatetthet DD = Dobbel datatetthet
ET = Enkel sportetthet DT = Dobbel sportetthet
ES = Ensidig DS = Dobbelsidig

Enkel datatetthet: single density
Dobbel datatetthet: double density
Enkel sportetthet: single track density(?)
Dobbel sportetthet: double track density(?)
Ensidig: single sided
Dobbelsidig: double sided


I hope the information I've provided is at least enough to get started, and I also expect that someone with more knowledge than me about CP/M floppy formats should be able to help here. Hoping this can work out. :-)

Jeff
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Re: HxC Slim on (Kon)Tiki 100

Post by Jeff » Fri Jan 10, 2014 8:30 am

No way to try to dump a disk with the hxc software , or try to format an HFE from this machine ?

Quarryman
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Re: HxC Slim on (Kon)Tiki 100

Post by Quarryman » Fri Jan 10, 2014 10:55 am

I might be able to dump a disk with the HxC software, will have to look into that this weekend.

Quarryman
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Re: HxC Slim on (Kon)Tiki 100

Post by Quarryman » Mon Jan 13, 2014 8:39 am

Tried dumping a floppy and got the following error message:

Error during RPM checking :21

Jeff
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Re: HxC Slim on (Kon)Tiki 100

Post by Jeff » Mon Jan 13, 2014 6:24 pm

Quarryman wrote:Tried dumping a floppy and got the following error message:

Error during RPM checking :21
The drive is rotating ?!?

Quarryman
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Re: HxC Slim on (Kon)Tiki 100

Post by Quarryman » Mon Jan 13, 2014 9:06 pm

No, it doesn't rotate. So clearly something is wrong.

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Re: HxC Slim on (Kon)Tiki 100

Post by Jeff » Mon Jan 13, 2014 10:43 pm

Quarryman wrote:No, it doesn't rotate. So clearly something is wrong.
force the motor on signal to the low state.

Quarryman
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Re: HxC Slim on (Kon)Tiki 100

Post by Quarryman » Tue Jan 14, 2014 12:19 pm

Pardon my ignorance, but how do I do that? Do I have to cut wire 16? (according to the pinouts I've found that is motor on?)

Update: figured it out after reading quite a bit, so now I got it to dump a floppy, but it has very many bad sectors. I guess there is nothing that can be done about that?

Testing a new dump now with more retries, and it seems to work a little bit better. I'll upload the dumped images once I'm done.

And here they are:
http://media.qj.no/tiki100/bad_dump.hfe (the first attempt, got a very high number of bad sectors)
http://media.qj.no/tiki100/good_dump.hfe (0 bad sectors, so I think this one might actually be good for something)

Jeff
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Re: HxC Slim on (Kon)Tiki 100

Post by Jeff » Wed Jan 15, 2014 8:48 am

Only one side ?

Code: Select all

Diskettformater for TIKI-100 Rev C
----------------------------------

                    ED ET ES   DD ET ES   DD ET DS   DD DT DS

Kapasitet (k)             90        200        400        800
Ant. spor pr. side        40         40         40         80
Sekt. pr. spor            18         10         10         10
Sekt. lengde             128        512        512        512
Blokkstørrelse          1024       1024       2048       2048
Sys. sylindere             3          2          1          1
Fysisk "skew"              ?          2          2          2
"Check size"               8         16         32         32
Kataloginnganger          32         64        128        128
"Block shift"              3          3          4          4
"Block mask"               7          7         15         15
"Extent mask"              0          0          1          0

ED = Enkel datatetthet      DD = Dobbel datatetthet
ET = Enkel sportetthet      DT = Dobbel sportetthet
ES = Ensidig                DS = Dobbelsidig

Merk: 
 - TIKI 90k formatet tilsvarer XEROX 820 formatet.

For TIKI's egne formater (200k, 400k og 800k):
 - Sektorer innenfor et spor ligger fysisk i denne rekkefølgen:
   1,6,2,7,3,8,4,9,5,10 (fysisk skew / sector interleave = 2)
 - Logisk sektor tilsvarer fysisk sektor (vanlig sektor rekkefølge)
 - Spor x på side 1 følger logisk etter spor x på side 0. 
The informations you give me are confusing... i don't know how many head should be used for each format.
What is the difference between the 200Kb and 400Kb format ?!? probably the side number, but i m not sure.
i think that you will have to play with the raw file loader....

Quarryman
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Re: HxC Slim on (Kon)Tiki 100

Post by Quarryman » Wed Jan 15, 2014 10:23 am

Yes, the 200k format is single-sided, and the 400k format is double-sided.

And the floppy I dumped yesterday is a 200k floppy.

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Re: HxC Slim on (Kon)Tiki 100

Post by Jeff » Wed Jan 15, 2014 12:41 pm

Quarryman wrote:Yes, the 200k format is single-sided, and the 400k format is double-sided.

And the floppy I dumped yesterday is a 200k floppy.
Ok so just enter the parameters into the raw loader, load with it the dsk file and export the hfe file.
you can compare your dump and the generated image with the track viewer.
Let me know if this is working....

Quarryman
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Re: HxC Slim on (Kon)Tiki 100

Post by Quarryman » Tue Jan 20, 2015 10:44 pm

And finally, one year later I'm back with results. :oops:

The correct settings for Tiki formats are (huge thanks to FrodeM on the Retro1.no forum for these!):
Track type: MFM
Number of tracks can be either 40 for 200k and 400k formats (1 side and 2 sides respectively), or 80 for 800k format (2 sides)
Bitrate: 250000
Sectors per track: 10
Sector size: 512 bytes
RPM: 300
Interleave: 2
Skew: 0

I've uploaded a zip file with FPF files for the three common Tiki formats, a config file, and an HFE image of Tiko 4.01, might be useful for someone else with a Tiki.

So, I guess this means you can add the Tiki 100 to the list of supported computers. :)

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