Ensoniq ASR-10 and TS-10

HxC Floppy Emulator Ensoniq Keyboards/Samplers support
Western
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Re: Ensoniq ASR-10 and TS-10

Post by Western » Fri Jan 04, 2013 9:43 pm

I bought SDCard HxC Floppy Emulator from Lotharek ebay store in March 2011.
Now I updated firmware to version 1.7.2.7.
Nothing changed. Image file still bad - the second file is unreadable, "FAT reading" with beeping continues. Unintended access to Floppy (middle yellow LED) in operational mode periodically presents too. SD access (red LED) lights too.
Power supply is 5.1 V

Jeff
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Re: Ensoniq ASR-10 and TS-10

Post by Jeff » Fri Jan 04, 2013 10:08 pm

Western wrote: Nothing changed. Image file still bad - the second file is unreadable, "FAT reading" with beeping continues. Unintended access
Maybe corrupted by the previous firmware.

Can you make an RAW image of the full sdcard ? Winhex is able to do this. DD under linux.
By this way i will have a full copy of your sdcard and i will be to restore it on one of my sdcard to check this problem.

BTW what is your sdcard model ?

Western
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Re: Ensoniq ASR-10 and TS-10

Post by Western » Sat Jan 05, 2013 7:54 pm

My SD card is 4Gb Transcend micro SD HC. It is new, I wrote images one month ago (used space 0.7 Gb, free space 3.0 Gb)
I tried to analyze it with WinHex but twice "Input output error" and once "An error occurred while reading sector 46345" messages appeared.
I'll try again some later.

Western
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Re: Ensoniq ASR-10 and TS-10

Post by Western » Sun Jan 06, 2013 12:24 pm

Today when I tried to load “Grand Piano” (the first file) again - loading stopped at track 76 (pre-last for this file) with TS-10 message “disk non formatted” (never been before).
At second try this file loaded normally – track counter stopped at track 77 and “FAT reading” with beeps began (as usually). Third time TS-10 message “disk non formatted” appeared again.
So, seems, SD continue degrade. I think the reason is unintended access to FDD with passive (high) signal “Motor ON”. I already told about this strange behavior of TS-10 OS in operational mode.
I tried to use chip 2-input POSITIVE-OR gate to mix signals “Select” and “Motor On” in one. It helped. to exclude unintended access to HxC Floppy Emulator in TS-10 operational mode. Short flashes of Floppy access (yellow LED) stopped, FE screen became blank and only SD access (red LED) stays periodically shortly flash more than one time per second. Seems, it normally (BTW, why does it flash without access?).
In TS-10 “Load” mode all operates normally – Floppy access lights continuously with short breaks when track steps, SD access lights continuously. After file loading finishes - FE screen and Floppy access LED blank and only SD access shortly flashes.

Jeff
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Re: Ensoniq ASR-10 and TS-10

Post by Jeff » Sun Jan 06, 2013 2:23 pm

Western wrote:My SD card is 4Gb Transcend micro SD HC. It is new, I wrote images one month ago (used space 0.7 Gb, free space 3.0 Gb)
I tried to analyze it with WinHex but twice "Input output error" and once "An error occurred while reading sector 46345" messages appeared.
I'll try again some later.
So now there are no doubt: your sdcard have bad sectors, and is problably not suitable for day to day usage...
What about change for a better quality sdcard ? i recommend class 10 Sandisk sdcard.

The behavior of the TS10 is not so strange : the Atari ST have exactly the same behavior ! The machine regulary poll the drive to check if a disk was changed. Same thing the Amiga. Sure that actually the HxC cannot go into idle mode with such polling. i will try to add a disk selection signal filter into the firmware to avoid this.

Anyway i didn't see such sdcard degradation before : Many people & i use the HxC with Atari / amiga machine and i didn't noticed such degradation...

What i also know is that there some very bad sdcard series with a very fast speed degradation. The Wear leveling used into the sdcard is also very important : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wear_leveling
Western wrote:Today when I tried to load “Grand Piano” (the first file) again - loading stopped at track 76 (pre-last for this file) with TS-10 message “disk non formatted” (never been before).
At second try this file loaded normally – track counter stopped at track 77 and “FAT reading” with beeps began (as usually). Third time TS-10 message “disk non formatted” appeared again.
So, seems, SD continue degrade. I think the reason is unintended access to FDD with passive (high) signal “Motor ON”. I already told about this strange behavior of TS-10 OS in operational mode.
I tried to use chip 2-input POSITIVE-OR gate to mix signals “Select” and “Motor On” in one. It helped. to exclude unintended access to HxC Floppy Emulator in TS-10 operational mode. Short flashes of Floppy access (yellow LED) stopped, FE screen became blank and only SD access (red LED) stays periodically shortly flash more than one time per second. Seems, it normally (BTW, why does it flash without access?).
In TS-10 “Load” mode all operates normally – Floppy access lights continuously with short breaks when track steps, SD access lights continuously. After file loading finishes - FE screen and Floppy access LED blank and only SD access shortly flashes.
So with this gate you are able to read the first file again ?

Question : Do you use the 2 drives emulation ?

EDIT : And how many time this sdcard was used into the emulator ? how many time per day ? how many day ?

Western
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Re: Ensoniq ASR-10 and TS-10

Post by Western » Sun Jan 06, 2013 8:47 pm

Jeff wrote:So with this gate you are able to read the first file again ?
No. With new gate the first file reads only sometimes. The second file inaccessible at all. (All as like as last time).
Seems, SD card degraded. unrecoverable. The only plus is - HxC Floppy Emulator goes to idle mode when no access.
Jeff wrote:Question : Do you use the 2 drives emulation ?
I didn’t use 2 drives emulation.
Jeff wrote:EDIT : And how many time this sdcard was used into the emulator ? how many time per day ? how many day ?
I used SD card not too many times, but synthesizer was ON for a long time (several hours a day) in operational mode without access to disk. But all the time the same image was loaded. Floppy Emulator never has gone to idle mode (screen lights, track jumps 77-2-77 etc., sometimes sounds like search track 0). Another words, lived its own life. May be, non adequate reaction for polling pulses. I think, write operation to SD was possible too. Files loaded once a day, so there were not too many loads. And the effect of “FAT reading” with beeping appeared once after one or two hours of operation (without any additional access to disk)
Jeff wrote:The behavior of the TS10 is not so strange : the Atari ST have exactly the same behavior ! The machine regulary poll the drive to check if a disk was changed
Exactly! Seems, you are right! TS-10 polls the drive to recognize disk change in operational mode. When I modified “Select” signal to “Select” OR “Motor ON” - TS-10 stopped recognize Floppy Emulator ‘s “Disk change” signal.
So, program filtering disk selection signal in the firmware should be the best solution! As I stated, I measured with oscilloscope these TS-10 disk polling pulses (in operational mode when “Motor On" is high) and found short low level pulses (15 uSec + 2 uSec with pause 15 uSec) on the “Select” line (pin 10). These pairs of pulses repeats with period 1 msec all the time. I think, it helps you to make a filter.
I compared TS-10 with another my synthesizer ASR-10 (rack mount). Its behavior differs from TS-10. ASR-10’s OS doesn’t use polling to determine disk change signal. It uses the hardware feature of SONY MPF420-1 drive. It memorized “Disk Change” event by internal trigger. On the first access ("Select =LOW) it gives one pulse on Disk Change line (pin 34) and resets internal trigger for next “Disk Change” event. So, there is no need for polling. (I don’t know why TS-10 use it – may be for the possibility of using another than SONY MPF420 disk drives?)
Last edited by Western on Sun Jan 06, 2013 8:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Jeff
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Re: Ensoniq ASR-10 and TS-10

Post by Jeff » Sun Jan 06, 2013 8:53 pm

Ok. Anyway this sdcard degradation is not normal and maybe hide another problem.
Can you check the SDCard voltage at the hxc connector ? Should be 3.55/3.6v.

Western
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Re: Ensoniq ASR-10 and TS-10

Post by Western » Sun Jan 06, 2013 9:05 pm

SDCard voltage at the hxc connector is 3.52 V

Jeff
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Re: Ensoniq ASR-10 and TS-10

Post by Jeff » Mon Jan 07, 2013 8:39 am

Western wrote:SDCard voltage at the hxc connector is 3.52 V
This is ok.

Can you let your hardware power on during some hours and recheck the 5V voltage ?

Western
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Re: Ensoniq ASR-10 and TS-10

Post by Western » Mon Jan 07, 2013 10:05 am

Last time I measured power supply +5V after warming up my TS-10 for about four hours. There had never been problems with this. TS-10 digital power supply unit gives stable +5.1 Volts voltage.

Western
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Re: Ensoniq ASR-10 and TS-10

Post by Western » Mon Jan 07, 2013 4:55 pm

I think, the only 77-th track crashed on SD card. This is the last track at which track counter stops after file loaded. In this position it stays all the time system is switching ON. “FAT reading” with beeps begin (does it mean rereading of SD card's FAT?). Track counter stays point to 77. If try to force OS to reread Floppy image’s FAT manually (Change Disk) - track counter moves to 0 and all stops. When try to load the file again all repeats.

jajunbalan
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Re: Ensoniq ASR-10 and TS-10

Post by jajunbalan » Wed Nov 27, 2013 12:55 pm

hola jeff: soy eduardo de uruguay. tengo problemas con un ensoniq ts 10 compre flexidrive con sd. para reemplazar la disquetera vieja.la compre en argentina ( la mejor que tenia) me dijeron que era solo cambiarla pero no. no funciona. estuve mirando el foro y hice algunas cosas como formatear la sd.. y ponerle el archivo de ts-10 y descomprimirlo pero tampoco anduvo. en el display del floppy me dice (no files) creo que esta bien. y en el teclado dice (disc draive not reader) siempre. con ( load,save,format,etc..) si no te molesto mucho te agradeceria que me ayudaras porque en mi pais no hay nadie que entienda y la verdad es que a mi particularmente me encanta el ts-10. espero tu respuesta. desde ya muchas gracias y un gran abrazo a la distancia.

Jeff
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Re: Ensoniq ASR-10 and TS-10

Post by Jeff » Wed Nov 27, 2013 7:55 pm

Sorry but i can't help you. I can only support the HxC Floppy Emulator users.

jtrawka
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Re: Ensoniq ASR-10 and TS-10

Post by jtrawka » Sun Jan 01, 2017 10:15 pm

Western wrote:Hi average_male,
I don't know exactly, may be read only limitation for my SP-4 is due to my old OS version of TS10 (v.2.54 ). Although v.3.10 is the last. Do you know where can i get the ROM dump (.bin or .hex file) or buy programmed ROM chips of this version (v.3.10) to upgrade my TS10? There is no hardware difference between SP-3 & SP-4. "Read only" is TS10/12 OS firmware limitation. ASR-10 has no this limitation.
I couldn't upload photos of PCB directly, so I give you links to image hosting
http://img835.imageshack.us/img835/6144/scsi1.jpg
http://img218.imageshack.us/img218/7365/scsi2.jpg

Regards,
Youriy
Hello Western
I’m trying to do a little project with my TS-10, can you please refresh your links for the SP-4 PCB boards images (the above links are dead), they would be very helpful for me.
Many Thanks.

jhulk
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Re: Ensoniq ASR-10 and TS-10

Post by jhulk » Thu Jan 19, 2017 7:54 pm

hi jeff some one posted a 5mb hfe file for asr10 so it can save larger than 1.44 mb sample instruments how are you achieving this is it using the disk span code from the asr10 os floppy routines to span for larger sample instruments

as some one said just load and use it i was asking how would the ensoniq see it but got it just works so some more information would be good so that it can be added to the asr10 face book group for others to know how its done and the advantage it gives for users with out scsi

thanks

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